Why didn't the Allies bomb Auschwitz

[Gwenick]

Just read this link

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4175045.stm

It's all very well asking now - "should we have bombed it" - but then what would we be saying if we HAD - it would probably be something along the lines - of "OMG look how many innocent Jews we killed trying to 'save' them".

What about those Jews who survived, and have gone to on to get married and have children, or those that survived and were reunited with family members?? How would the families feel now if we'd bombed them?? I don't think it would have helped bombing them - the Nazi's would only have found somewhere/somehow else to persecute the Jews.

Opinions please (nice controversial one for a Sunday afternoon ;-)

you should visit this site

PEOPLE DIED or rather were murdered.

Not Jews/Blacks/Homosexuals/gypsys

PEOPLE

But the point I'm trying to make (which people seem to be deviating from) is that fact that all too often people say Nazis, Death Camps, Jews in one sentence - and seem happy enough not to 'think' about the other groups that were killed as well.

I know the example I'm about to give is no where NEAR as bad as the Nazi Death camps. But I remember vividly when they US Embassy in Kenya was bombed.......I was in Zimbabwe at the time and the only 'foreign' news channels which we avaiable (as part of the ZBC news bulletin) was CNN the report went something like this

"Twevle americans where killed in bombings in Kenya, Tanzania etc etc - several others were also killed or injured"

When the actual fact was that over 200 'others' had been killed.........all Africans - the emphasis was placed entirely on the American losses rather than acknoleding EVERYONE that suffered losses.

9 out of ten victims of the death camps were Jewish. 2 out of every 3 Jews in Europe died. Is that not enough suffering?
Yes, obviously Jews are people, but they weren't murdered for being people, they were murdered purely and simply for being Jewish. To pretend otherwise is madness.
Yes many other people died in the war, and at the hands of the Germans and others (notably the Russians) and other people died in the death camps as part of 'ethnic cleansing' policies, but what distinguishes the Jewish victims is a/the fact it was official nazi policy to kill every single Jew in the world and b/it very nearly succeeded.

Message withdrawn

I'm not disputing the fact that the majority of those who died were Jews - what I'm saying is wrong is the total emphasis on them and just 'forgetting' that others suffered too. Is the suffering any less for those that were in the 'minority' groups??? They suffered the same persecution, the same torture, same death camps.

Yes 6 million Jews died during the holocause - but millions of other people died too.

And I'm afraid 9 out of 10 is incorrect.

11 million people died in total during the Holocause

6 million were Jews
5 million were 'others'

I just read on a GCSE web page that Hitler's hatred of the jews may have been sparked off by his rejection from art college by a jewish professor! Little acorns and big oak trees, eh?! Can't do a link because you have to open it in Word and I don't know how to link that. Its very interesting though. I googled "why did hitler hate the jews".

Message withdrawn

I don't think it's tasteful.but

a) the link was a story printed on the BBC News website just the other day

b) Another point which has been brought up is that people still seem to think the holocaust is only about the Jews - when nearly "the others" that were killed almost equalled their number!

actually approximately 6.7 million people died in the Death Camps .. of which approximately 6 million were Jewish

But the Holocause wasn't just about those killed in the Death Camps - although that is what we're primarily remembering today.

The Holocaust was about the exterminating of any group which didn't fit into their 'pefect' view of how the world should be under Hitlers rule - it began before the 2nd world war, and didn't just include the Jews -

I always thought the Holocaust referred to the Jewish victims of the Nazis, as opposed to any other group.

but socci the whole point of marking this horrendous event on it's anniversary is to keep it in the fore front of people's memories. If people don't discuss/talk/remember it such evil will be forgotten

Here's a definition

Message withdrawn

Yes in the Death Camps it was more 'hateful' if you wish to describe it that way - more Jews DID die in the death camps. But Holocaust can also be used to describe a great loss of life.

www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn?stage=1&word=holocaust

In the fist 'definition' given on the above page it can also apply to the 5 million 'others' that were killed until the Nazi regime AS WELL as the 6 million Jews.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Do I live on another planet from some of you? Who are these people who speak as if the holocaust only happened to Jewish people? I've never heard anyone say it. I see no contradiction between remembering ALL the people who were murdered and also understanding that Hitler's anti-semitism was absolutely central to his ideology; and that the process of systematic extermination in places like Auschwitz was developed primarily in order to kill Jews. The Wannsee Conference, at which the decision to carry out the 'Final Solution' was taken, dealt mainly with the question of how to kill Jews (see the recent dramatisation on TV). But the Nazis also wanted to kill other groups whom they hated, like gypsies, gays and disabled people. Is there anyone on the planet who doesn't know this?

Gwenick

You sound like a holocaust denier

You sound like an anti-semite

You sound like a racist

And I bet you didn't know that, I bet you thought you were having an intellectual conversation, well what you say (and continue to say) just smacks of anti-semitism

I just wanted to point that out to you

MUD - that is well out of order!!! I have read the whole thread through and in my opinion, noone has sounded like that! Is there any point in getting heated over this on Mumsnet? It has just been pointed out that many poeple died unnecessarily and while many of them were Jews , there were others aswell - and that is exactly true! No one is suggesting one group are more deserving of our sympathy than another - the whole thing was abominable and I think we are agreed on that.

Disagree shortcake and I felt it was about time someone pointed it out

because, and this is the important part, I really don't believe she means to sound that way, I actually think she might be shocked to realise that her comments can be construed as racism

Not in my view - I can't see evidence for one rascist comment from Gwenick.

doesn't watch the documentaries because she finds them "'bias' in terms of it's all about the Jews "

AND

"It just annoys me a little when it's ALL about the Jews - and the other groups that were persecuted seem to get forgotten about."

Well I can only reiterate what lisalisa said so eloquently

"It is actually insidious, this creepingly louder bleat that the holocaust education and memories contain too much bias in favour of the jews. It smacks of the same type of bleat that the influence of the jews is too strong, their power too great and their wealth too large? And damn the buggers, they're even now claiming the majority of holocaust deaths."

And once again I do not think Gwenick realises that to others she can sound anti-semitic, in fact I think (hope) she would be horrified to realise that

I think it's absolutely ridiculous and offensive to accuse someone of being anti-Semitic for wanting to remember all the victims of Nazism and arguing for that case.

And I disapprove of bandying terms like Racist, Anti-Semite, etc. around, in order to stifle debate.

Actually I kind of think she has a point. I've had to take a few breaths inwards at some of the posts on here.

Maybe Mud is Jewish? because if you have that heritage you see things from a different perspective

Maybe Mud has met a death camp survivor, I spent 3 months working alongside a lady who spent a year in a Bergen-Belsen and that is an experience I will never ever forget

All I am saying is that experiences colour your interpretation of what others are saying and maybe that is why these posts are being interpreted negatively?