Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

@lakesidesummer

We as a country raised her. We may not like what she did, or the beliefs she holds. They may be illegal even. But she was born and raised in this country, she went through our education system. She is ours.

With a bit of luck......She could be theirs soon! 🤞🤞🤞

I hope all the other brides and terrorist fighters soon follow her! We just don’t need such evil people in our country.

The Gvt are appealing so there is still hope she will not be allowed back.

The IK did not make her stateless as she has another nationality. It is irrelevant that she had never lived in Bangladesh. They can refuse to have her back too, but she is not 'stateless' which is the key point.

But if a 'child' of 15 is allowed to decide they are a different gender, and have surgery/medication for it, and another child is allowed to lecture the world on climate change, then why is this 'child' deemed to be incapable of having made her own decisions? I think she and others like her, whatever sex and age, should be left to rot in the country they chose to run off to. I begrudge every penny of my taxes spent on scum like this.

And you have decided that Bangladesh does?
A much poorer country with much less resources and capacity to monitor potentially dangerous people?
I'm not even sure that the UK would be safer if we exported all of our terrorists to developing countries of our choice, our world is heavily interconnected and ideas and people can move around pretty easily.
As a country we did an appalling job with this girl and dumping her on another country is just ducking our responsibilities.

By international law, everyone has a right to citizenship. No one can/should strip you of that. Foreign criminals in UK are regularly deported to their countries. Begum should return to her country. You can pick n choose what universal human rights to honour. Besides, Western terrorists back in their countries is safer for everyone because these countries have the resources to investigate, monitor and even rehabilitate. You can nurture terror here n expect I'll resourced countries to deal with them. And UK can't or shouldn't support the keeping of persons, no matter their crime, indefinitely without fair trial. Reinstate her citizenship, bring her back n let her face the justice system here

@TildaKauskumholm

But if a 'child' of 15 is allowed to decide they are a different gender, and have surgery/medication for it, and another child is allowed to lecture the world on climate change, then why is this 'child' deemed to be incapable of having made her own decisions? I think she and others like her, whatever sex and age, should be left to rot in the country they chose to run off to. I begrudge every penny of my taxes spent on scum like this.

As I explained before. A child consenting for a medical procedure must be assessed and proven to understand fully the risks and benefits of the procedure to them personally. The doctor responsible is required to try to persuade them to involve their parents. Only then can they give consent.

No child can consent to marriage. At fifteen you are a child whether people dislike the idea she was an abused child or not.
The authorities were aware of the risk and failed to act.

Many, many teenagers do and say very silly things. Many watch violent pornography. Many play extremely violent online games. Many break all sorts of laws.
They aren’t denied the protection of democracy. Listening to some peoples views makes me wonder whether we’ve moved further towards a fascist state than I thought. It is clearly racism as the girl has not been convicted of any crime. There is no doubt she’ll have significant mental health problems but who wouldn’t in her circumstances?

An abused child with a history of serious trauma and no convictions who is likely to be seriously unwell and yet people are hating for a cruxifixction without trial rather than trusting to our well established legal processes.

She doesn't actually have another nationality AFAIK. She has the right to apply for one because of her parents but it's not automatic and it could be refused. I still think she should be made to stay where she is till that country takes action.

@TildaKauskumholm

But if a 'child' of 15 is allowed to decide they are a different gender, and have surgery/medication for it, and another child is allowed to lecture the world on climate change, then why is this 'child' deemed to be incapable of having made her own decisions? I think she and others like her, whatever sex and age, should be left to rot in the country they chose to run off to. I begrudge every penny of my taxes spent on scum like this.

So I am assuming the right to a fair trial, basic human rights , (as signed by the UK in the universal declaration) are ALL things you think this country would be better without ?

I am really glad that we don't have law and judgement by popular opinion .. as this makes us no better than an ISIS caliphate.

It is ignorant to believe people aren't allowed to use our justice system because we don't like what she has done.

Harold Shipman killed hundreds. Was it ok for him to get access to the courts because he was a white English doctor ... ? Or were his crimes 'lesser' because he killed people at home!

This is simple racism. She is considered as 'not quite british' because she espoused anti british values and is brown and Muslim.. (not any kind of Islam that I understand as I am white british from a CofE background) .. but the underlying theme here is that she is not a Brit . When the facts point otherwise.

She was born here.
She was raised here
She has never been a citizen of any other country .
She is british and needs to face British justice in a british court.

@lakesidesummer

And you have decided that Bangladesh does? A much poorer country with much less resources and capacity to monitor potentially dangerous people? I'm not even sure that the UK would be safer if we exported all of our terrorists to developing countries of our choice, our world is heavily interconnected and ideas and people can move around pretty easily. As a country we did an appalling job with this girl and dumping her on another country is just ducking our responsibilities.

Bangladesh wasn’t a country, picked by blindfold and placing a pin on a map. Her mother was born there.

Of course she wouldn’t want to go there, but that’s exactly why she should get debt there.

As I’ve said previously, I think we could compensate them financially. Also she’s unlikely to be a security threat there, in the way that she is here. That terrorist group hate us so hopefully she’ll be no threat to them. Also, she should serve her prison time here so not to put that on Bangladesh.

How did ‘we’ do an appalling job with her??! Can you imagine how hard it is for the security forces to keep an eye on every potential terrorist? They can not monitor everyone all of the time.

sent there

@KatherineParr4

Totally agree that she needs a fair trial. No dispute on that. However let’s not pretend she was an innocent child who didn’t know what she was doing. As someone said upthread, to plan and execute her escape , leaving her family devastated is not the action of a child.

So no other CHILD of 15 has ever run away from home in the UK for what they believe in their teenage minds to be a 'better life' ? and then sadly saw that it wasn't after ending up in all kinds of horror ?

You must live a very sheltered life !

I think if the Government had of made her come back in the first place things may have been different. It’s been quite some time been brain washed is a serious thing. Who knows if she would lapse months down the line and do the same again. It is risky.

@TildaKauskumholm

But if a 'child' of 15 is allowed to decide they are a different gender, and have surgery/medication for it, and another child is allowed to lecture the world on climate change, then why is this 'child' deemed to be incapable of having made her own decisions? I think she and others like her, whatever sex and age, should be left to rot in the country they chose to run off to. I begrudge every penny of my taxes spent on scum like this.

This is quite harsh. I don’t want to offend anybody on this thread but generally if you look at an Asian culture it can be very strict and even abusive regarding marriage and some other views they have. We don’t know the ins and out of the girls family dynamics for a start.

Harold Shipman killed hundreds. Was it ok for him to get access to the courts because he was a white English doctor ... ? Or were his crimes 'lesser' because he killed people at home

The difference is, Harold Shipman didn’t have the potential to a possible dual/another nationality. He was also always in this county when the heinous crimes were committed, so it’s hardly like for like comparable.

I’m pretty sure if there was a way around him being stripped of his British Citizenship then there would have been a huge call for that too- but sadly there wasn’t.

He was evil. He worked alone. In society you get random people that commit atrocities and they are simply evil. Every now again this happens and it beggars belief. Thankfully it’s quite rare.

These organised crime groups are a massive security threat though and plot against the west. They have links everywhere and it’s much more wide scale than anything a lone wolf could do.

He was a mental case but he wasn’t a national security threat. So the whole race card is irrelevant!

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

Of course they do. The problem is there seems to be no genuine remorse.

[quote KatherineParr4]@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

Of course they do. The problem is there seems to be no genuine remorse.[/quote]
But that is my point..
A news interview by a left of centre broadcaster (BBC) .. or a news report by a right of centre news organisation (Sky)
Or press reports by right wing funded newspapers (mail, telegraph, times etc) are NOT a British court (thank God) ..

She needs to be heard and judged.. by 12 people... from all walks of life.

Still the best way ... And I am PROUD that this is the British way...

If SB comes back to be tried here, does anyone know whether there would likely be any investigation into the deaths of the 3 babies?

I’m pretty sure if there was a way around him being stripped of his British Citizenship then there would have been a huge call for that too- but sadly there wasn’t.

How is this in anyway right thinking ?

Do you REALLY think the best way to deal with wrongdoers is to 'ship' them off to another country to deal with !!!

Our problems ARE OUR PROBLEMS!

Looking for a 'loophole' so that we don't have to deal with it is all kinds of wrong !!

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

I’m pretty sure if there was a way around him being stripped of his British Citizenship then there would have been a huge call for that too- but sadly there wasn’t.

How is this in anyway right thinking ?

Do you REALLY think the best way to deal with wrongdoers is to 'ship' them off to another country to deal with !!!

Our problems ARE OUR PROBLEMS!

Looking for a 'loophole' so that we don't have to deal with it is all kinds of wrong !!

If you care to read my posts properly- I said she should go to jail here.

How is it in anyway right thinking?.........Because she joined a terrorist organisation that wants the west to suffer 🙄 National security here trumps everything!

She’s already been stripped of citizenship so it’s not something we’ve made up!

I also said that the Bangladesh government should be given financial assistance for taking her in.

My compassion is saved for those that were killed by that barbaric regime.... never ever for those who join it

She's our responsibility. We should deal with it.

TooTrueToBeGood

It’s so fucking worrying that some people minimise what this women has actually been a participant off.“

It is not known what she was party to. At the moment, it’s speculation. That is was a trial is for.

What a trial is for.

They are not sure they can charge her with anything. So we might get her back only to watch her walk free. I don't really care if she is British, she certainly betrayed everything Britain stands for and now she wants to come back as if "oops my bad"? This is not a racism thing, this is a No Interest in Having Her Back Thing, I don't want any of them back and I don't care what their ethnic background is.