Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

They are not sure they can charge her with anything

It is up to Syria as that is where the crimes were committed
Entering Syria illegally, supporting a terror organisation and or being involved in the massacre of civilians (sewing bombs onto suicide bombers) would keep her in prison for several years if not earn her the death penalty if Syria wanted to prosecute.

At the moment I get the impression that she doesn’t think she has done anything that bad and if she isn’t called to account then how would she know that her actions are criminal

Because she joined a terrorist organisation that wants the west to suffer 🙄 National security here trumps everything!

No it doesn't ! Nothing is above the law !!

Due process is THE LAW unless you support imprisonment/consequences for actions are through popular opinion !

Which makes us no better than ISIS .

I am sorry it doesn't suit your wishes,
I'm sorry you don't like her views (neither do I , I find her views as disclosed so far absolutely abhorrent)

That doesn't mean you get to pick and choose who gets justice. That's just wrong and against everything the UK justice system believes in .

We are better than this.

@lifeafter50

The IK did not make her stateless as she has another nationality. It is irrelevant that she had never lived in Bangladesh. They can refuse to have her back too, but she is not 'stateless' which is the key point.

That's not true - she's eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship but has never had it. Regardless of her crimes I find the precedent of depriving a British citizen of their citizenship and justifying it because they're eligible for another one appalling. That would mean for instance that I could have my citizenship stripped - I'm a British Jew and have never lived anywhere else or held another citizenship, but according to Israel's Law of Return I'm eligible for Israeli citizenship. Stripping someone's citizenship because they're British but have some "foreign blood" really scares me.

The person I feel the worst for is her newborn baby Jarrah, who died at three weeks old because of the terrible conditions being born in that refugee camp. That baby was a British citizen with a right to help from us. An innocent child died because Begum was stripped of her citizenship instead of being brought back here and put on trial. She should be in a UK prison right now and Jarrah should be just over a year old and healthy. I'm glad they're finally bringing her to the UK but nothing will bring that baby back.

Bangladesh wasn’t a country, picked by blindfold and placing a pin on a map. Her mother was born there.

And?

Donald Trump's mother was born in Scotland. It doesn't mean it is Scotland's responsibility to address his short comings.

The UK did an appalling job in allowing a child to become so groomed that they felt leaving the country and joining ISIS was a good plan.
No one noticed it had happened.
The country also had such weak immigration controls they didn't prevent this from happening.
I'm not sure I have that much sympathy for this young person but I'm sure that they from the UK and it is our responsibility to manage not another country, particularly a country with much more limited resources than the UK.

@2020wasShocking
Also she’s unlikely to be a security threat there, in the way that she is here. That terrorist group hate us so hopefully she’ll be no threat to them.
Why would she be less of a threat to Bangladesh? ISIS attacks have killed thousands of people in Muslim countries, far more than they have killed here, and hundreds have been killed in Bangladesh.

FO advice for Bangladesh

Terrorists are very likely to try to carry out attacks in Bangladesh.
UK Counter Terrorism Policing has information and advice on staying safe abroadd and what to do in the event of a terrorist attack. Find out more about the global threat from terrorismm.
The threat extends across the country. Crowded areas and places where foreign nationals are known to gather may be at higher risk of attack. There is a risk that future attacks could also target public gatherings, including religious gatherings and political rallies. You should minimise your exposure to these areas, consider your movements carefully and follow any specific advice of the local security authorities.

They really have enough dealing with their own issues without having our home grown terrorists dumped on them.

Bangladesh also is much less well off than the UK with a host of issues to contend with not least somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 refugees from Burma.

We are in a much better position to deal with her. Whether a trial ends up with a prison term of otherwise.

The willingness to wash our hands of this British citizen who was raised educated and radicalised here, and dump her on a country that has had nothing to do with her and has a whole load of issues of their own strikes me as immensely selfish.

Yes @ShinyFootball it really is a profoundly un British way to behave in my view.

Just read an article about Bethany Haines, the daughter of aid worker David Haines who was murdered by these evil monsters in Syria and how she was given the opportunity to meet shamima and she rejected it, and quite rightly so

Just imagine that her father was killed by these cowards and he was innocent. She must have only been 16/17 at the time. Imagine losing your dad in such a barbaric way at that age.

She’ll never get her dad back. His wife will never get her husband back. His parents will never get their son back.

Shamima Begum is part of a group that took all that from that family. She doesn’t deserve anything.

You are blaming her personally for all the atrocities committed by Isis, mainly by men (the women are for making babies).

The way this women is attacked while we have taken back loads of men who went out there is baffling.

As for the parents thing, if all the people in the world who had a British parent and commit a crime get sent back here that's not going to be great for us tbh.

@ShinyFootball I’m not saying she has taken part in any atrocities, I have no evidence to say so.

I’m just saying that purely being a member of ISIS is disgusting in itself and is what’s known as guilty by association. She couldn’t give a shit about who they murder. She may as well be taking part because her being there is just as good as

Doing bad things, joining bad groups doesn't change your nationality though.

It doesn't mean that you cease to the responsibility of the country where you were born and bred and become the responsibility of your mother's country of origin.

She may or may not be a dreadful person but that doesn't change your citizenship.

Interestingly, the Independent reported that the number of white terror suspects being arrested outstripped those of Asian appearance for the second year in a row in 2019.

Should all those aligning with far right views be imprisoned without a release date?

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

Because she joined a terrorist organisation that wants the west to suffer 🙄 National security here trumps everything!

No it doesn't ! Nothing is above the law !!

Due process is THE LAW unless you support imprisonment/consequences for actions are through popular opinion !

Which makes us no better than ISIS .

I am sorry it doesn't suit your wishes,
I'm sorry you don't like her views (neither do I , I find her views as disclosed so far absolutely abhorrent)

That doesn't mean you get to pick and choose who gets justice. That's just wrong and against everything the UK justice system believes in .

We are better than this.

It’s not me that stripped her Citizenship.... it the government. They don’t do that for fun now do they?!

By 'eck there are some scary views on this thread.

Born in the UK
Educated in the UK
Groomed in the UK
Radicalised in the UK

So, yup, whatever she's done, she belongs in the UK.

Really can't understand where the 'no way' brigade think she should go.

It's illegal to make someone stateless, we have to have her back, she's ours, however unpalatable that may be for some. She is British,

disorganisedsecretsquirrel I am afraid those that have decided she needs to rot in Syria have no intentions of listening. And you are so right. The "she is not wholly British" theme makes me sad. If only she was a "pure" Brit, he? With generations of white ancestors to trace.

I agree with you Squirrel but am afraid Britain has been dumping its various problems on many developing countries and some people (As shown here) don't care. We are not in any way minimising her heinous crimes but we can not pick and choose who gets their human rights respected based on their mother's heritage.

We are not in any way minimising her heinous crimes but we can not pick and choose who gets their human rights respected based on their mother's heritage.
I agree with you.
She was born here, raised here and radicalised here.

I find it scary how many people seem to think that teenagers can't be radicalised or groomed. Would they be saying victims of CSE weren't really groomed? Or children groomed into county lines? I doubt it.

@CherryPavlova

Interestingly, the Independent reported that the number of white terror suspects being arrested outstripped those of Asian appearance for the second year in a row in 2019. Should all those aligning with far right views be imprisoned without a release date?

Have you got a link to that as I’m genuinely interested to know the comparison of the severity of the attacks.

Ah I’ve found it.

The number of white terror suspects being arrested in the UK has outstripped those of Asian appearance for the second year in a row

*Official figures showed that that 117 white people were arrested on suspicion of terror offences in 2019, compared with 111 Asian suspects and 21 black suspects.

I’d like to know if the 21 black suspects were Islamic because that would skew the head line right up.

However from the same article -

A total of 25 attack plots have been foiled since March 2017 – 16 Islamist, eight far-right and one other

If anyone commits a terrorist attack aimed at inflicting harm on innocent people then they shouldn’t ever be allowed to roam free again.

@2020wasShocking my thoughts exactly!!! I’m baffled as to how some people can defend her when she went and joined a terror group. I just don’t understand

[quote mummabear1967]@2020wasShocking my thoughts exactly!!! I’m baffled as to how some people can defend her when she went and joined a terror group. I just don’t understand[/quote]
You and me both hun. It’s mental 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤯🤯

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/terror-attacks-far-right-islamist-europe-uk-stanwell-2019-a9581921.html

Nobody is saying Manchester bombing wasn’t a heinous crime, but the far right extremists are also a significant threat that is frequently overlooked.

They are not sure they can charge her with anything.

I'm confident there is strong evidence. If Shamima Begum's citizenship is reinstated then she can be tried for any murders she committed in Syria, as well as whatever other offences she's committed. And if SB is convicted of murder I would absolutely support a whole life sentence.

It's not a matter of defending anyone.

It's a matter of not fucking international relationships and law by washing our hands of a UK citizen and dumping them on a country that has fewer resources just because we feel like it.

Do we really want all the criminals in the world with one UK parent sent back to us?

Are we going to send back everyone in the UK who has a non UK parent?

She is British. She is our responsibility.

The idea that we can do whatever the fuck we like seems to be a growing theme in the UK.

Why the fuck should Bangladesh, a poorer nation with a load of problems, be responsible a UK citizen?

I don't get this attitude at all.