Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

She can do a lot of damage from a uk prison.

@dannydyerismydad

If we can accept that white British teens can be groomed by Asian gangs, abused and prostituted, it can't be hard to accept that teens of any colours can be groomed by extremists.

This is not a case of welcoming her back with open arms. It's allowing her back to the country for questioning and potentially a trial. And if she is found guilty, she is a british citizen, groomed whilst living on British soil. It's our problem. We can't go foisting her on other countries.

This completely. This was a child who was groomed and radicalised. As such, we have a responsibility to support her.

She was 15, she was groomed.

I thought she was also a Bangladeshi citizen? And wasn't she married?

The comments she made when she was first traced and interviewed were utterly vile, she showed no remorse at all. She only changed her tune when it suited her to do so because she wanted to come back to the UK.

The age of criminal responsibility is ten. She knew what she was doing.

[quote Chloemol]@SimonJT

No she is not a victim, at 15 she was capable of getting out of the country and going to live with ISIS. She knew exactly what she was doing. In addition when she was found in that camp she stated that she thought the Manchester bombing was OK. It was only when lawyers got involved she suddenly changed her mind

The victims are those who died not her. She deserves to stay where she is, and if she does come back her she must be arrested and tried Immediately[/quote]
Thats how grooming works, it makes people (because adults can be groomed as well) believe certain things are okay.

There are children who have been groomed to deliver drugs, because they have been groomed they will think this is okay.

There are children who have been groomed to join gangs and commit violence, they will think this is okay.

There are children who have been groomed to perform sex acts on adults, they will think this is okay.

Any child is at risk of grooming, very few escape grooming without intensive intervention from adults because they have be groomed to not trust outsiders. Victims of grooming very rarely realise what has actually happened to them until they are adults.

@MintyMabel

Speak to 22 families in Manchester, they know what it is to be a victim.

So teenagers groomed for sex aren’t victims either?

This is a bogus argument using families who have suffered terribly. Crappy thing to do.

Absolutely.

She's a British citizen and has no other citizenship. That's the end of it. She's a British criminal who has committed crimes as a minor in this country and should be treated accordingly. As other have said, if the was a white mc teen (some of whom have also joined ISIS) people wouldn't be saying leave her in Syria. Why should Syria deals with her? Or any other country?

She wasn't a world wise 15 year old, she was a 15 year old from a very sheltered upbringing who was groomed to join ISIS.

And you can argue all you like about whether she knew what she was doing but the fact is she was legally a child.

@mummabear1967 lots of 15 year olds know right from wrong, and still chose the wrong path. I do not believe a 15 year old child would have the foresight to know what they were walking into. It's not like they will be told the truth my the member s of Isis trying to recruit and brainwash them is it?

Because she’s a dangerous person and god only knows what could happen if she was allowed to return. It’s a slap in the face for people who have lost loved ones to terrorist attacks and killings

There is a huge difference between 15 year olds who are groomed for sex - thereby being the victim - and joining ISIS, going overseas and supporting a terrorist organisation that then wants to blow up people in your own country.

If she, obviously, didn't feel the UK was her country anymore (otherwise why support an organisation aiming to kill your fellow citizens) then that's fine. She's welcome to live elsewhere. I have no idea why she suddenly thinks the UK is a wonderful place to live when it was that awful in the past she felt obligated to blow the UK to kingdom come. The only thing that's changed is that she thinks she'll get benefits/work/home etc., Hopefully she'll learn that all she'll get is jail time and a lot of it.

[quote mummabear1967]@BrassyLocks well it would be a waste of tax payers money to hold her in prison. I just think she should be left to stay in Syria.

But if she does return here and they put her in prison, I hope they throw away the key[/quote]
Anyone accused of a crime must be tried and then sentenced accordingly. You cannot just leave a person in Syria as punishment for crimes you think they have committed. We have a fine justice system here and it must be adhered to. Everything that she did or didn't do must be considered by a court and the judge will sentence according to what the law recommends. Any other way leads to the breakdown of our society.

There are people in UK prisons that I personally feel don't deserve to live at taxpayers' expense. But my feelings are irrelevant, as we cannot execute them or send them somewhere else. Transportation as a punishment ended over a century ago. Why should some other country have to deal with our criminals?

She can come back for a trial:

“Shamima Begum should be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to remove her British citizenship, the Court of Appeal has ruled.“bbc

The comments she made when she was first traced and interviewed were utterly vile, she showed no remorse at all.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but when you have lived through what she did, I think your emotions might be somewhat disconnected. Also don't think I would go around criticizing Isis when I still had to live with them, alone with no support.

I’m a bit uncertain what my views are on this, I can see both sides and not sure which I think is best. Best for her would be to return, but not sure that’s best for the UK.

The fact that she didn't display adequate levels of remorse was held against her. She was a 15 year old who went through multiple traumas - married off to a much older man, lost babies, saw death all around her. Is it any wonder she is displaying an inability to process, let alone convey, what has happened to her? She was groomed, manipulated and brainwashed. She is a British citizen, so regardless of what you think of her views and actions she is this country's problem, not anyone else's.

She faced unimaginable horror abroad, including the deaths of her three children.

Begum INFLICTED the horror.

I thought only two children died 'accidentally'.

Because she’s a dangerous person and god only knows what could happen if she was allowed to return

You realise there are terrorists living in the UK at the moment?

Of course she will come back to the UK, she's a UK citizen from the UK.🤷‍♀️

I wonder how many people would think their own daughter wasn’t a victim if she was groomed to join a cult/terror cell, forced to marry an adult and raped by her husband.

Or do people think some children under the age of 16 are somehow able to give consent?

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion yeah I do and there have been terrorists living here in the past and look what happened!

Look at the attack at Fishmongers Hall back in November of last year, that guy lived in the U.K.!

By removing her citizenship she was made stateless - which is illegal.

As soon as we start to ignore the law because it's 'a bad person' it becomes very dangerous. What if the next person we ignore the legal rules about is a bit less bad, then a bit less.

I find the idea of living in a society where a government, already showing themselves to be corrupt, get to decide when and when not apply the law far more frightening than having her back here and dealt with through the proper process.

@lunar1

She can do a lot of damage from a uk prison.

Possibly. However, politicians can do far more damage if they are allowed to disregard the law. The Court of Appeal has ruled that she has a legal right to return and challenge the removal of her citizenship and that's good enough for me. Do you want to live in a country where the government can remove someone's citizenship with no legal recourse? I certainly don't, regardless of what the individual may or may not have done.

OP, you'd love the Daily Mail comments section. It's full of absolute fucking pricks who share the same opinion as you. You'll have a better time over there. This is about citizenship and international law. It's not about whether what she did was right or wrong. There's something wrong with you.

Look at the attack at Fishmongers Hall back in November of last year, that guy lived in the U.K.!

Is he still in the UK?