Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

It’s like championing the human rights of Ian Huntley.

Well it's not is it? Because despite all his horrendous crimes, he wasn't stripped of British citizenship or have his human rights taken away.

Let’s be blunt if shamima was white would some of you be still singing from the same hymn sheet I think not.

The arrogance on this thread.

@333mumtobe Oh, please come back! PLEASE! I'd love to chat with you. You seem so reasonable and bright. And kind. Not like a bigoted bellend at all. You sound like you have a real head on your shoulders. I bet people don't mess with you, do they? You're the voice of reason. One of the silent majority, no doubt. We could have been friends. :-(

@333mumtobe - There are a lot more typos you need to correct. Download Grammarly (or similar). It won't stop you from being stupid, but you'll look less so.

the fact is she made her choice and letting her back is setting a very dangerous precedent.

No, making her stateless would be setting a very dangerous precedent, both to British citizens and to countries that British people travel to.

No, making her stateless would be setting a very dangerous precedent, both to British citizens and to countries that British people travel to
100% agree.

Deciding that a 15 year old child couldn't be groomed would also set a very dangerous precedent as well. Think how of the gains that change in safeguarding would give predatory adults.

The lack of logic within this thread is worrying. It seems to centre on the idea that the rule of law and safeguarding should change depending on what public opinion is of the person / child involved.

There is no alternative to this.
She is British. Born here. Raised here. Never known another country.
FIFTEEN YEARS OLD..:

Would anyone think any different if she had been white when she left. ? Or was the Burka ?

Completely agree with the irrefutable fact that grooming is grooming.. be it for sex, religious extremism or drug running . It makes NO difference.

Grooming is a process where a CHILD is manipulated by an adult for their advantage. Be it sex, recruitment to an ideology or money from drug running. Begum (WAS a child, this is a legal identification, at 15 you are a child by law in the uk.. being brown or wearing a full length chador does not negate that fact and make her an adult)

Shocking2020 likes to try and tell us that grooming can't apply in this case because she knew that ISIS were a blood thirsty mob... so went in with her eyes open .. really ? You actually BELIEVE that recruiters to radical Islam do not find a 'reasonable' explanation to explain the barbaric behaviour? Surely you are not so naive that you done know that is not how grooming works. ! Firstly she would have been told that it was all western propaganda.. not to believe anything she reads from the anti Islamic western media.. groomers get inside children's heads until they are the only ones they believe... and they work from there..

This child, who is above the age of criminal responsibility needs a proper examination of the facts. In a court of law.. not by casually racist daily mail readers .

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

Completely agree with the irrefutable fact that grooming is grooming.. be it for sex, religious extremism or drug running . It makes NO difference.

Grooming is a process where a CHILD is manipulated by an adult for their advantage. Be it sex, recruitment to an ideology or money from drug running. Begum (WAS a child, this is a legal identification, at 15 you are a child by law in the uk.. being brown or wearing a full length chador does not negate that fact and make her an adult)

Shocking2020 likes to try and tell us that grooming can't apply in this case because she knew that ISIS were a blood thirsty mob... so went in with her eyes open .. really ? You actually BELIEVE that recruiters to radical Islam do not find a 'reasonable' explanation to explain the barbaric behaviour? Surely you are not so naive that you done know that is not how grooming works. ! Firstly she would have been told that it was all western propaganda.. not to believe anything she reads from the anti Islamic western media.. groomers get inside children's heads until they are the only ones they believe... and they work from there..

This child, who is above the age of criminal responsibility needs a proper examination of the facts. In a court of law.. not by casually racist daily mail readers .

Think you might want to re read the thread......

@CodexDevinchi

Jesus some of the latter comments on here about why posters don’t want her back are ridiculous and bigoted themselves. Maybe posters are just scared she will get out and continue or she will become a figure head because of the media coverage. Doesn’t mean they are ignorant or racist. People’s genuine concerns are valid. Those girls joined an army that inflicted a lot horrific damage, what they did to the Kurdish women and children is beyond evil. People have a right to be scared of anyone with that connection. It really doesn’t help that one of the girls father was filmed at a rally with well know Islamic hate preachers and Lee Rigbys killer. People feel fear when this women is in the news. To call it racism is just fucking basic.

For what it’s worth I do think she should be bought home. These were not stupid girls, they all studied very hard but we need to find out how this happened. The school and police had already spoken to these girls in school and did not inform their parents. Why? I’m actually in two minds if they used them as bait tbh. And she needs to come back and talk.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

This poster sums it up nicely.... in fact, there are a few posters that are very articulate and put the opposite view across very well and deserve credit!!

And the racist card is ridiculous as per above 👆

This poster sums it up nicely.... in fact, there are a few posters that are very articulate and put the opposite view across very well and deserve credit!!
Credit is given where people express concerns about how she will be managed in the UK, the state of investigation, deradicalisation programmes, and so on.

It's not articulate to have incoherent and illogical arguments that the UK should be able to deport any foreign nationals who commit crimes in the UK, but then the UK should also be able to force other countries to take our citizens if we don't feel like having them back, or is you have good grades then you're immune from grooming by radical religious terrorists and knew exactly what you were doing age 15, but if anyone points out grooming can (and does) happen to teenagers then they should shut up and stop talking about it because SB is just different and she knew what she was doing so that's it. Of course nobody should point out how this doesn't make sense or comment on the fact that some people think the UK should deport foreign criminals from the UK whilst conveniently thinking that a radicalised 15 year old of Asian heritage should be kicked to another country because (a now deleted post) said her passport was the only British thing about her, not that many people challenged that conveniently.

It's hilarious to see posters arguing she got good grades so knew what she was doing. Safeguarding hubs up and down the country would have a much easier life if they could filter any potential harm to children by looking at their school reports and placing everyone with good grades on the 'nope nothing to see here' pile.

Many of the posts on this thread aren't people debating what happens if and when SB, or any other British citizen, returns from Syria. They're people saying it's fine to abandon the rule of law and dump our citizens on other countries if the mob happen to decide they don't like the person. That level of populism and intolerance is concerning. It's all well and good to say people are painting others as 'knuckle dragging racist for daring to disagree' (or words to that effect), but that highlights how insidious racism is because most racism isn't held by knuckle dragging EDL types, but people who honestly think they're articulate who are horrified at being confronted by race issues because they're respectable, not knuckle draggers.

Lola you’re entitled to your view- as are other posters.

I agree.
Disagreeing with illogical views on the rule of law and safeguarding isn't saying otherwise.

She is a British citizen.
It's not a case of if you want her back or not.

You have an issue with her return you should be petitioning for a change in the law -
Because you don't want British citizens tried in the UK?

@LolaSmiles

I agree. Disagreeing with illogical views on the rule of law and safeguarding isn't saying otherwise.

What ever your view is, you’re entitled!

Ethically and morally, she should not be allowed to return.
Legally, she should be, as unfortunately she is a British citizen.

Ok Shocking2020 please tell us the legality of refusing her return. WITHOUT resorting to YOUR moral stance. ?

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

For goodness sake- read the threat properly if your going to pick people out and get your facts straight! Out of about 35+ pages, I don’t expect you remember everything, but if you’re going to single me out- at least get your facts straight!!!

I said she should be brought back here actually and put on trial here. If she is found guilty- then she shouldn’t be allowed back!!! If she’s not found guilty then fair enough.

What I don't understand is why this young woman is being held to such a different standard than the male jihadis that have returned to the UK. It's almost like being a child and female make her more culpable for what was done.

It’s easier to prosecute male jihadis as there is greater clarity of intelligence as to the extent of their crimes. This gives a secure buffer for security services to put together a management plan. Currently, human rights laws make it difficult to detain Begum in a safe way given the nature of the alleged crimes. It’s more difficult to do a risk assessment.

Interestingly though, given the only evidence she’s being treated differently is anecdotal (and I’m not sure what I think on this), Jack Letts is white and male and his citizenship withdrawn. Increased media coverage is normal for females anyway, much like when a child is abducted. That’s not on the government.

[quote 2020wasShocking]@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

For goodness sake- read the threat properly if your going to pick people out and get your facts straight! Out of about 35+ pages, I don’t expect you remember everything, but if you’re going to single me out- at least get your facts straight!!!

I said she should be brought back here actually and put on trial here. If she is found guilty- then she shouldn’t be allowed back!!! If she’s not found guilty then fair enough.[/quote]
What on earth are you talking about ?

'If she is found guilty then she shouldn't be allowed back ?

So you are advocating that she stands trial in the UK (I assume that's because you accept she's a British citizen - or why else would you think this) but then you go on to say that if she is found guilty (in a British court for a crime against the state) then the state should somehow 'not allow her back' ! . That's bonkers beyond words... what do you think should happen to British citizens found guilty of crimes against the state.. ? Send to some 'other country' ... which country ?

You can't go round passing your country's criminals to others just because they are inconvenient.

@sergeilavrov I was thinking more of public opinion but yes, you're right, that may be a reflection of media reporting.

@SonEtLumiere I’m not saying it’s a good thing to do, I make no moral judgement - just a security based one. We agree that there are other factors in play that aren’t being captured by anecdotal evidence as provided.

Begum has this applied as she still had the option of not being stateless at the age she was, the legal argument is that her refusal to seek citizenship in Bangladesh is deliberately making herself stateless.

The biggest mistake in all of this was allowing media coverage. This could have been dealt with quietly and definitively without it, maintaining security.

Dumping our home grown terrorism on other countries is illegal, unlawful, unethical, unjust, bullying, entitled and absolutely criminal too if there is a chance these terrorists find a way to continue their activities.