The government doctors advice has changed now it is NO alcohol in pregnancy ane when trying to conceive at all

[zippitippi]

.....

early alcohol can damage the egg and cause miscarriage and facial deformities, later it can cause a spectrum of brain damage and low birth weight

so the new advice is abstinence

this brings this country into line with eg the US

interestingly obstetricians are sticking with 1 to 2 units a week

times online

heh. I gave up alcohol to get pregnant first time around. 6 months, nothing doing. Then we went to a friend's wedding, thought sod this and got ratted, 'caught' that evening

A brief survey of my friends in baby group and at least half of the conceptions involved alcohol. Won't we have a population crisis if people listen to the guidelines?

it does seem to be a message which a broad range of people are very resistant to, while happy to endorse no smoking no drinking is much less popular

It's scaremongering, anti-women bullshit. Pregnant women used to be routinely advised to drink a pint of guinness a day, but there was no epidemic of fetal problems then. And, as Rubberduck says, huge numbers of pregnancies occur due to alcohol consumption - it's also true that a lot of women who weren't consciously TTC drink alcohol in early pregnancy because they don't know or even suspect they are pregant - and most of their babies are all right.

While this isn't to say that it's a great idea to get trashed every night when pregnant, any kind of state compulsion on pregnant women's behaviour is very worrying as it soon escalates into a compulsion on all women's behaviour (you can't have this job, do this thing, go out of the house because YOU MIGHT BE PREGNANT) - a lot of the long battle for workplace equality was held up by this idea that all women are pregnant or about to be pregnant all the time and therefore can't do anything physically challenging.

I think it's good advice

how is it different from advising not to smoke or not to wean until 6 months?

The reason that the OG/gyn are sticking to the 2-4 units a week is that this change has been brough in with no new data to back it up.

As I understand it there is no data to support the theory that low levels of alcohol have adverse effects......this theory is an extrapolation besed on the effects of foetal alcohol syndrome.

Given there thereis no new inforation, the doctors are sticking with the original advice

it is easier advice to give as well

I do believe that some of the behavioural/developmental spectrum difficulties may be alcohol related

it is hard to make the links and i think there is also a reluctance to do so understandably

"hard to make the links"

I mean hard to design scientific research

Yes, agree 100% with martianbishop.

The reason this guideline has been brought in is because we're considered too "stupid" to know what 1-2 units of alcohol a week is. Or too "weak" to just stick to that.

FWIW I totally went off alcohol during the first trimester both times anyway. Then had the very occasional glass of wine with food at an event (like a family barbecue, etc) or over Sunday lunch. I don't think that was unreasonable and still don't, despite the changing guidelines.

zippi: so why are behavioural/spectrum difficulties increasing when drinking LOTS during pregnancy is actually decreasing?

Certainly my grandmothers and mother's generation were encouraged to drink much more alcohol during pregnancy than we were.

don't you think it is helpful to discourage alcohol as there are so many women who do drink and no alcohol is going to mean more women drink less as hopefully it will become as frowned upon as smoking?

Yes MB. The advice isn't bassed on the best advice available, it's based on the fact that they beleive that some women are too bloody stupid the work out what is 'excess alcohol'. And some women becomes all women by extension.

Funny how having a womb makes you sooo thick isn't it

Children with foetal alcohol syndrome have behavioral/learning difficulties, so yes, some of these problems are caused by alcohol. However I am unaware of any study that show that these are caused by low levels of consumption.

You cannot extrapolate from women who drink a bottle of wiskey a day to a woman who has the odd glass of wine with dinner. If you could, then all of France, Italy and Spain would be full of people with FAS.

It is rather like saying you shouldn't shower because some people drown in a lake.

I think it's highly unlikely that women drink less now than previously

drinking alcohol is much more common amongst women than ever before ???

women are very about this i know...I don't see why really, if in doubt i would rather be cautious

I would be less worried about eating peanuts than drinking alcohol

sorry

women are very defensive about thhis

Personally, I'll stick to drinking in moderation while ttc and abstaining as far as possible during pregnancy (a few glasses of red wine in the last month of pregnancy where a lifesaver for me, to be honest) as I have done in the past. Where's the concrete evidence to suggest this is dangerous?

When I was pg I had the odd glass of wine. I read the data and made an informed choice (and when I say read the data I mean I did pub med and medline searches and read the orginal papers). I also discussed the issue with my doctor and midwives.

The idea that I would be too stupid to understand 2 units once or twice a week is insulting to me personally and to women in general.

well it's not the only area where there is a lack of concrete evidence

but health advice still gets given eg weaning at 6 months

it seems quite logical to me that alcohol will effect a baby if pate does

why take the risk

I don't have a problem with this, but then again, I don't drink, so it's no hardship to me. There are many, many posts on MN from women who are looking for support to justify their drinking during pregnancy though

We do know that the liver of a baby in the womb cannot process alcohol, so you are effectively given the baby a drink when you have one. Not the greatest thing to do, surely?

That said, I appreciate that this thread is about how we feel about the advice rather than the effect per se.

I am always surprised how this issue goes when other things like shellfish etc etc people fuss about

The difference with the pate issue is that it can contain bacteria. you only need one of those!

Different issue. Different science behind it. So it is rather like comparing apples and oranges.

what about one binge?

ok what about peanuts then?

or the science behind leaving weaning to 6 months?

Good greif! Ever think you're being watched. I'm abut 5 mths pregnant and so far have abstained totally from alcohol. I put an order in for on-line groceries last night and ordered some wine. Don't know why, just fancied a glass. (It's more of a perry than wine, so less alcohol content, in mitigation!)

So, has somebody grassed me up? Has Sainsbury reported me to the government? Is this press release this morning just to make me feel bad? Talk about big brother watching your every move. Ok, ok, I won't drink it.

or cigarettes even more pertinently...people on mn are very strong on smoking in pregnancy but very reluctant to give bin alcohol