The government doctors advice has changed now it is NO alcohol in pregnancy ane when trying to conceive at all

[zippitippi]

.....

early alcohol can damage the egg and cause miscarriage and facial deformities, later it can cause a spectrum of brain damage and low birth weight

so the new advice is abstinence

this brings this country into line with eg the US

interestingly obstetricians are sticking with 1 to 2 units a week

times online

I agree that it is very patronising - it's just something ELSE to make women feel bad about itsn't it? Plenty of people I know(including myself) got completely rat arsed in the early stages of pregnancy, before knowing we were pregnant. A lot of people then spent the rest of the preganacy in a panic or beating themselves up over it. There is PLENTY of time for maternal guilt - why start before your baby is even born??

I can't say a new government guideline would change my behaviour any. I think people give them a bit more credit than they deserve. I am capable of making my own decisions.

I didn't drink in the first trimester and then every now and then, and never more than two drinks in a night. A new guideline wouldn't change that behaviour if I had a nother -- which I don't plan to.

I agree with Harpsicordcarrier, and would be more likely to "trust" the advice of the obstetricians who at least are basing their advice on some scientific studies.

It is easier though to say no alcohol during pregnancy - not everyone knows how much one unit of alcohol is, especially if you regularly drink say wine in a pub / bar that comes in a 250ml glass!

I didn't have no alcohol during my pregnancies, BTW....

I find the subject interesting too zippi. And also the reactions to it - if the science backed it up would women abstain?

I barely drank throughout my pregnancies - except for one binge very early on in my 3rd when I didn't know I was pg. Dd has an 'unusual' heart problem. Make of it what you will.

And you only have to go into town on a Saturday night to see that there are plenty of women who have no idea about drinking in moderation.

And it's getting rougher by the day Fio.

Wouldn't it be more helpful if they got drinks companies to display the number of units on the bottle?

Or is that interfering too much with the freedom of big business.... far worse than interfering with the freedom of pregnant women, obviously

do they? I haven't noticed but then I never buy alcopops etc!
If it's already there on my wine maybe they could display it bigger!

Yes units are on most bottles. Need to think about the size of your wine glass though too.

I'd love to live by the sea Fio . I'm stuck with the Cauldon Canal.

Alcohol content is always shown on wine I think. In fact I've started choosing wine by alcohol content. I like the taste of wine and I would rather be able to enjoy a few glasses without getting completely hammered. Is it my imagination or is it getting stronger - to the best of my memory you couldn't buy 13-14% wines years ago.

wine is definitely strong now unless you are drinking lambrini!

I'm all in favour of giveing people accurate info into what constitues a unit.

Better to do that than to scare pregnant women who have had the occasional glass of wine.

Better yet to target parents with alcohol problems and give them the help they need.

But that would cost money.

The government doctors advice is always seen as a bit big brother when they are advising against something like this (which doesn't suit everyone)whereas it is taken as gospel for things like weaning and breast feeding

I think although most women give up almost completely as soon as they find out they are pregnant, there should be more fuss made about the potential harm.

There is a great deal of fuss about smoking during pregnancy, but in fact drinking is far more harmful in terms of the long-term effects on the child.

FAS and its milder variants is completely incurable and they just don't have any idea at what level harm starts to be done. They know in extreme cases that the symptoms are clear and severe, but they don't know at what stage harm is done but at a level that cannot be attributed. There is no equivalent syndrome for smoking, suggesting that actually the harm could be much less than drinking.

I certainly look at my youngest daughter and worry about her 'philtrum' which is quite flat. I would not have considered myself to be drinking excessively at the time, but I now wonder why I did at all.

In my opinion, they can't over-emphasise the importance of watching what you drink while TTC. It is too late for those of us who have done it already, but not for those children who have not yet been born.

'There is a great deal of fuss about smoking during pregnancy, but in fact drinking is far more harmful in terms of the long-term effects on the child. '

that a very debatable and as yet not proven statement: for example smoking is related to low birth weight, yet its only relatively recently that the disadvantages of those born medically small have started to be acknowledged- such potentuially harful effects as reduced IQ, higher chance of Obesity etc have been suggested- 'more harmful' indeed is very difficult to quantify. The effects may not immediately measurable, but they have long term effects and can substantially affect long term life quality.

Yes peachy, it is true that smoking has a well documented impact on birth weight, and I accept what you say about this being a problem in itself. But drinking during pregnancy causes brain damage and they don't know at what point harm starts to be done. It is only when the damage is severe and fits the syndrome that they can attribute it to the effects of drinking.

Smoking has a cumulative effect - the more you smoke, the more damage is done. Drinking is different. You could have one binge episode at the wrong stage in pregnancy and cause FAS.

I just think that there is very low awareness of the possible damage caused by alcohol in pregnancy compared with smoking. Smoking is viewed as completely unacceptable, but alcohol shows signs of being damaging too, and is seen as positive in small doses.

I would feel happier if alcohol were viewed as more taboo, because I would not have drunk at all, as in fact I didn't with the second pregnancy once I read up on it.

Cloudhopper: it's quite simple, really. If mild to moderate drinking was that risky, there would be an absolute f* epidemic of flat-nosed, three-eyed, brain-damaged infants around the place. The MAJORITY of adults now would be suffering from severe disabilities due to the wide-ranging advice of a pint of guinees a day 20 or 30 years ago.
All that is going to happen with this new advice is a rise in the abortion rate, when women who are frightened that the two halves of shandy they had the night they concieved have ruined their embryo's chances. And then of course, there will be a huge fuss in the papers about selfish, careless, incapable-of-using-contraception women who have abortions...

I read this with interest since it's so silly how the US reacts to this and seems like the UK is doing the same. In the US, they cite several studies how any alcohol is terrible during pregnancy, and yes..they did come out a few years back with the 'no woman of childbearing age' should drink...this is so stupid. They also sometimes say that men shouldn't drink either because it does damage sperm quality, but this always less direct..if they mention it at all.

Interestingly enough, they say it's okay if you did drink before you knew you were pregnant and downplay the dangers of this as long as you abstain when you find out.

They also require warning labels on all alcohol sold in the US that drinking during pregnancy is bad...on and on, I think that's fine, but when I was pregnant at a friend's wedding the waiter didn't even give me a champagne glass and I felt like a tiny child..I ran to the bathroom and cried and cried...

Also, there have been several cases of pregnant women getting arrested while having a drink. (This is usually someone poor and/or a minority sadly.) On my anniversary we stayed home because I wanted a glass of champagne because there's no way someone visibly pregnant would have a drink in public in the US.

I hope it doesn't get this out of hand here. As for US rules on eating do's and dont's..they introduced the peanut thing awhile back too. They also used to say no caffeine while pregnant, but that has now changed and small amounts are okay. It's just a bunch of men treating women like children in my opinion. I still remember many of my friends suffering terrible headaches and getting sick from their headaches when the guidelines said absolutely no caffeine while pregnant. This was about 7-10 yrs. ago in the US. Did they ever say this in the UK? My friends were really mad when this rule changed to say it was okay to drink 1-2 cups of coffee or tea per day. They were suffering from caffeine withdrawal in addition to being pregnant.

The US never suggests that ALL meat must be well done either, so I kept eating my medium-rare steak as usual. (Of course no one eats undercooked chicken...of course that's bad.) Also, in the US any cheese is perfectly fine as long as it's pasteurized, so I kept eating my brie and what else...I figured if the French do, it's fine.

On the subject of alcohol - I have discovered a very nice german beer sold in Waitrose (no I'm not a food snob before anyone asks - I go to several supermarkets)and it is less than .5% Tastes much better than the alcohol free ones and at that alcohol content one won't hurt a couple times a week.

0.5% in case anyone failed to notice the decimal point (what with us being stupid and all).