The government doctors advice has changed now it is NO alcohol in pregnancy ane when trying to conceive at all

[zippitippi]

.....

early alcohol can damage the egg and cause miscarriage and facial deformities, later it can cause a spectrum of brain damage and low birth weight

so the new advice is abstinence

this brings this country into line with eg the US

interestingly obstetricians are sticking with 1 to 2 units a week

times online

so kinki what was your thinking behing abstinence? assuming that you normslly enjoy a drink from time to time?

But there is evidence that there is an adverse effect of cigarettes

Just like there is an adverse effect of large amounts of alchol

But there is no data to support a total ban. There is no evidence that 2 units twice a week is harmful. None.

They just think that women are too stupid/weak willed to follow the advice,

Zippitippi and beansprout, it's less about whether a woman actually drinks or not, than it's about a mindset that women are not adults and not capable of making informed decisions, especially about pregnancy. I find this sort of blanket prohibition (with no proper evidence) worrying because it reminds me of other anti-women social trends that have come over from the US disguised as health advice or whatever: a lot of the US stuff about drinking in pregnancy is being pushed by anti-choice people who want to get the legal status of a foetus changed so women can be prosecuted for eating or drinking carelessly during pregnancy (and of course, so they can't have abortions). A lot of the Satanic Panics of the early 90s could be traced back to loopy US fundamentalists smearing daycare centres because they thought women should stay at home.
And our Govt has not got a great track record on civil liberties, after all.

is there evidence that 5 cigarettes a week is bad?

I drank the odd glass of wine and mild cider when pregnant. Since there doesn't seem to be any compelling evidence that the odd glass of alcohol will harm the foetus, why not?

But it isn't prohibition and it isn't a law, it's advice!!
And, the sad fact is, there are some people who aren't very good at making these kinds of judgements. Not very liberal thing to say but true.

Zippitippi, also, I can speak from personal experience as someone who got thoroughly trashed more than once during pregnancy and who now has a healthy 2-year-old DS who is described by his nursery and HV as bright and advanced for his age. You have to drink a hell of a lot, steadily and constantly, to do damage to a developing foetus - either that or be very unlucky.

perhaps in the spirit of altruism governemtn advice which says none may not be relevant to the average mumsnetter's child but may protect the average woman's child in the UK

yes, there is, gicven that there is evidence that 5 fags a week is bad for adults.

beansprout - quite frankly, lots of people are pretty crap at making informed judgements about many areas of their lives... but I still don't think the government ought to intervene too much. If you take informed, adult decision-taking out of people's hands, they become totally incapable of ever forming their judgement, and you get a population of babies.

I didnt drink during pregnancy but did whilst breastfeeding. I amk concerned that advice that thius is given out if there is no evidence for it rather than saying one or two units.

well with some p[roblems it is hard to say though from personal or anecdotal experience

I think an area where there should be more scientific study is between dyslexia/dyspraxia behavioural and developmental problems and both specific drinking evenyts in pregnancy and alcohol in pregnancy generally

very complicarted and expensive to do effective studies though

there are also lots of healthy kids whose mothers smoked

zippi, tbh, it wasn't a conscious decision to abstain, more a case of not fancying it any more. You're right, I usually do like a drink, but have had no taste for it whatsoever since being pregnant. Last night, while browsing for shopping I suddenly just fancied it. So ordered some.

Having said that, if I hadn't lost the taste for it I probably would still drink if I wanted to, but in much less quantities than before being pregnant. Simply for wanting to be doing the right thing. But I know if I smoked I would have given up completely (I gave up smoking 6 mths before ttc 1st dc).

Do you honestly think that the average woman in the Uk cannot understand 2 units once or twice a week????

If so then the population of the UK is more stupid than I'd thought. And I'm a teacher, so you'd think that I would have a jaded veiw of the ability of the country!

It's not about intellectually understanding the measurement, it's about appreciating the effect it may have. There are a lot of people who know the objective facts but deny the effects to themselves, e.g. overeating/poor diet can cause health problems and the same for smokers.

It's complicated. I think what it really boils down to is our relationship with these things (fags, booze, food). What is interesting is that a lot of women are extremely defensive about drinking while knowing that it could affect their baby in some way.

I think if the advice is none then thayt is so much stronger as a message that it will mean less alcohol is drunk in pregnancy and that will help some babies and children...worth doing as a message i think

and I am not a nanny state person

I find this a fasdcinating subject

I think that most women know perfectly well. Most women I know are already interpreting it as no alcohol anyway. And the ones who drink a bottle a day don't do so because they don't understand the guidelines - they do it because they are alcoholics more or less, they don't care, or they don't beleive the guidelines. And it doesn't help with the latter when the obstetricians are repeating with the same 1-2 units 1-2x a week advice on the same day.

zippitippi please tell me what's teh story with peanuts? I honestly don't know and did not know there was a problem with eating peanuts?? I must have eaten loads with DD.

pippi - there is advice to avoid eating peanuts and all peanut derivative products during pregnancy and breastfeeding, and to avoid giving those products to babies and small children, in order to avoid peanut allergy.

I ate some peanuts too pippi. Not many. No allergy problems in my children as yet (and my eldest is 10). In fact they seem to be almost the only children we know with absolutely no allergies.

Apart from hay fever - poor DS#1 is just getting it for the first time. But I don't think I can blame peanuts for that. Or alcohol.

martianbishop - I'm sometimes astounded at what supposedly intelligent (ie degree educated, well-travelled) people believe. I remember a former colleague saying to me a few years ago "If cigarettes were really dangerous, they'd be banned" .

I think we all have our blind spots, unfortunately.

I may be wrong but I believe in this country peanuts are considered to be a risk in pregnancy and the first years of life for allergy

but there is a new study just starting which is investigating whether in fact this advice is actually wrong as posssibly avoiding peanuts increases the risk of allergy

in the meantime the advice is to avoid peanuts

happy to be corrected if this is wrong

I have always believed without any evidence apart from foetal alcohol syndrome whjen you drink a lot that abstyinence in pregnancy is the best way for tha voidance of doubt

I did drink a lot at a wedding when i was pregnant with ds and i am sure that he has problems because of it, hence my interest

not proven, but mother's instinct

thanks. I knew not to give them to small babies and children etc but not about the pregnancy bit and I must have eaten a ton. I remember going to this rest in crouch end where they give them to you in a backet! oh well DD has got no allergies.

These threads always descend into anecdotal evidence. Ok then, I have crossed the road lots of times without looking, but have never been run over, therefore, there is no risk as I am ok!

no alcohol? Should have thought it was blindingly obvious myself...