Germany :(

[nuttymango]

And now Germany - an axeman has attacked people on a train.
BBC breaking news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36827725

I have no problem with people prescribing their lives in various ways with the rules they decide, it's when they decide that they would like others who choose a different way to do so and try to do it by force.

^^ But when its patriarchal society, ie rules dictated by men how much choice do their women get?

Not only diet and dress but also detailed instructions on periods.

Sporting

Exactly. Hopefully Fluffle will have the answer.

Even on periods, gosh I'm glad the vicar's in this country don't decide to lay out what we can do about that!

I think much of this conflict has come as the world's population has grown as before the numbers wouldn't have caused much difference.

Jews have detailed instructions on menstruation too when the woman becomes a 'niddah.' Sex is abstained from and physical contact is avoided and they sometimes sleep separately. According to the Torah, a niddah counts seven days from the first day of her period (including the first day) and then goes to the mikveh to purify herself on the night following the seventh day.

emily, I think most Jews in the West are "reformed" jews. They are very modern and don't follow all these old rules closely. I am not Jewish, but looking from the outside, the y seem to be spiritual without being literal. They seem a sophisticated, pragmatic bunch who have found a way to integrate, while still maintaining the essence of their religion. My gut feeling is that it is unfair to drag them into this conversation, comparing and contrasting them to Muslims in the West. Unfair to both them and to Muslims.

I do have some Jewish friends, but they are non traditional so don't observe this. So although it's laid down I guess it depends on how observant you are!

Well some of the Jewish friends I have are Goths so I guess they are especially 'reformed' Elly! They are definitely quite sophisticated especially when it comes to looking good!

Yes I'm sure we'll be hearing about the Westboro Baptist Church next, all 43 of them. They're usually first in the whataboutery game

Not necessarily reformed, possibly doing both. Some Muslims are punks, subcultures are really interesting.

I've come across only one Goth from a Muslim background and he was strongly non practising. Many people within these subcultures also reject organised religion as well, for many, many good reasons.

Trust me I do know that my Jewish friends in the main were non observant and one of them has married a man with a French Catholic background. They were mostly from EE Jewish background settled since the war.

There are only 43 of them, goodness I thought from the way people were talking there were thousands!

How interesting Emily thank you. I wonder how many muslims follow the period rules as well, very few I imagine. I just find it intrusive its even mentioned. I read it in some Sharia Law thing.

Shins is that really true, only 43 Babtists I got the impression from various threads it was a huge, quickly growing movement across the US

yy punks and gay, and lesbian etc etc etc.
There is a mosque that allows such to pray together but they struggle due to death threats from other mulims. ( peaceful ones )

X post sportinguista, shocking isn't it?

43??????

Reports on R4 of shots being fired at a shopping centre in Munich.

Please let nobody be hurt.

My poor German friends. How frightened they must be.

Breaking news www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36870874

Shots fired in a Munich shopping centre.

But not remotely clear yet if it's a terrorist incident.

I've just received a BBC news alert about Munich as well. Can't help but think "if it looks like a duck..."

You're kidding farty? Let's hope no one is hurt.

Did you hear about the security alert at Marham where an airman was attacked? I used to live near there as a kid, we used to take the dog for walks close to the base, it was a big treat in those days to watch the planes. It is actually pretty easy to get close, I imagine they will have to look at that.

German media (citing police sources) are describing it as chaotic and ongoing, and that there have been deaths.

There was another base under threat today too. .

They should all be on alert. Go out jogging etc in numbers for safety.
Hoping with all my heart this is false report from Munich. I think once a ball is rolling it gives others in waiting the momentum to carry out attacks.

DH has just said it's reported multiple deaths

It's not fake Mad, all too true sadly

CNN reporting it as a 'shooting spree'.
All other media outlets are saying reports of shots fired.
Major police incident underway.

German media apparently are reporting multiple deaths but I can confirm this as my German is terrible.

Yes my DH was talking about it this morning.

He was also wondering why their were no descriptions of the (two? Gang?) rapists who had been reported earlier this week.

I suggested he go away and think about that one.

It's strange when you know places atrocities and attacks happen. It makes them almost most obscene; that your innocent memories will be tarnished. I know that the kids from Lebanon who came over to Europe to school in the 80s found it really hard to go back; many still haven't.

It's the Olympia-Einkaufszentrum (OEZ) shopping centre (Bavaria's largest).

Big police operation, and lots of cordons

Oh Lord watching it now, DH stayed in Munich three times this year.

Andrew Neil Verified account  ‏@afneil · 47s48 seconds ago BBC
Multiple deaths now being reported from Munich shooting spree

Kay Burley Verified account  ‏@KayBurley · 47s47 seconds ago SkyNews
Multiple shootings in shopping centre in Munich. Deaths reported. Tune to @skynews now