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Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve Part II

999 replies

Pinkchampchoccies · 07/01/2016 19:35

Just in case people want to continue discussing this.

OP posts:
LurcioAgain · 08/01/2016 14:41

Oops, too many '9's but you get the idea.

Tatiana44 · 08/01/2016 14:41

claig Gadaffi.
When Saddam Hussein was captured & hanged, I was working for an Iraqi businessman and he said to me that those who were trying Hussein were 10 times worse than him. I remember being shocked, because I know he did not like Hussein.

Ditto when Gadaffi got stabbed to death in the street. My boss said that that was the end of whatever stability Libya had known; it would never come again.

Going back to pop control, you havent said what global governance would do.

polentapies · 08/01/2016 14:44

This is an interesting read. I don't know the site/publication and from a brief scan round the site, it's certainly right wing but that is not to say that it is not credible. The surveys that it quotes are v interesting. Anyone heard of this site or have comments?

Rape Culture

MistressMia · 08/01/2016 14:44

How can you assimilate people into communities when their parents and elders are telling them that the laws of their religion are above manmade laws ?

By the majority discrediting the religion through critical examination and robust debate.

This is the only thing that will bring about an end to Islamically inspired misogony and global terrorism.

People talk about Islamist, Wahhabi and Salafi Islam as if it's just those interpretations that are the problem. It's core Islam itself as derived from the Quran and actions of Muhammed that's responsible for these events.

Until this is acknowledged and it becomes a ludicrous concept to follow such an ideology and revere such a debased individual, things will continue in this vein.

I'm of Pakistani heritage and have lived in Karachi on and off. Such behaviour towards women is the norm there, so its not just Western/white women that are regarded as 'meat'. Women there self-censor to protect themselves not just from the men outside, but also from criticism and repercussions from their own families for 'inviting trouble'.

The NYE events are just another in the long list of Islamically inspired depravity and we all know it won't be the last.

Time to stop pandering to and respecting all faiths, regardless of what they say and to point out the absurdities, contradictions, hypocrisy and sheer vileness contained within the holy texts.

Being a follower of Islam needs to become as being as socially unacceptable as being a follower of any other fascist, sexist or homophobic movement.

It's an ideological war that needs to be fought and it needs a mass of people to vigorously be critical of it using facts and logic. Only then will the brainwashed followers realise that Islam is NOT what they believe it to be and the ideology will lose the mass support it currently has.

claig · 08/01/2016 14:48

'these things always take longer than you think'

But not against the DJs because they and Boko Haram and all the rest of them are being funded. Once their funding is cut off, their oil sales are stopped and anyone buying their oil is arrested and tried, then they will disappear quickly.

It's no secret that I like Trump. If he wins, it will be over within weeks because Trump is likely to do a deal with Putin and together they will wipe the Jihadis out. Then the refugees can return home and we will have to pay to rebuild their countries which were destroyed due to the destabilisation of the Middle East.

"Donald Trump claimed Sunday that Hillary Clinton "killed hundreds of thousands of people with her stupidity" with her decisions as secretary of state, seemingly shocking his interviewer.
...
"She is the one that caused all this problem with her stupid policies. You look at what she did with Libya, what she did with Syria. Look at Egypt, what happened with Egypt, a total mess."

"She was truly — if not the — one of the worst secretaries of state in the history of the country," he added. "She talks about me being dangerous. She's killed hundreds of thousands of people with her stupidity."

Wallace pushed Trump to clarify what he meant.

"The Middle East is a total disaster under her," Trump said."

uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-stupidity-2015-12?r=US&IR=T

With the right leadership and the right policies everything will get better.

LurcioAgain · 08/01/2016 14:52

It's no secret that I like Trump. If he wins, it will be over within weeks because Trump is likely to do a deal with Putin and together they will wipe the Jihadis out. Then the refugees can return home and we will have to pay to rebuild their countries which were destroyed due to the destabilisation of the Middle East.

History, in the form of US intervention in Vietnam, the Russian's attempted invasion of Afghanistan, not to mention the west's more recent unsuccessful attempts to intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan, suggests you may be wrong there, Claig. A Putin/Trump double act could indeed take us into an incredibly dangerous war, destabilising the Middle East still more and causing untold violence further afield, but you're kidding yourself if you think it will magically fix the problem within weeks.

claig · 08/01/2016 14:52

'Going back to pop control, you havent said what global governance would do.'

I don't like to spell it out.

Food, pandemics etc etc

MephistophelesApprentice · 08/01/2016 14:54

Destroying ISIS overt military power would be incredibly easy from a military standpoint. Securing the territory to prevent it's return would be all but impossible without a full commitment (including civilian support) to conquest, annexation and neo-imperialist social restructuring.

Pinkchampchoccies · 08/01/2016 14:55

Lurcio that is exactly what I was thinking. WWIII basically.

I am going through the comments on the Guardian and most of them a super critical of the arc tile and the Guardian in general. Apart from the editor's pick as Lurcio indicated*

OP posts:
Pinkchampchoccies · 08/01/2016 14:56

"Food, pandemics etc etc" again why on Earth? Whatever for? To govern robotic clones instead of humans?

OP posts:
claig · 08/01/2016 15:00

'A Putin/Trump double act could indeed take us into an incredibly dangerous war'

No, that would stabilise the world. You have to realise how much on the edge things are now. Trump said that his Republican rivals want to start WWIII over Syria. They are bought and paid for. China's stock market is tumbling. Kasich said "it is about time we punched the Russians on the nose", Christie said he would create a no-fly zone, which the Turks have been asking for, and said he would shoot down any Russian plane that entered it. The bought and paid for do as they are told.

Military commanders and strategists are saying that they have never seen the world in such a dangerous place.

There are distractions and destabikisations in order to disguise the seriousness of the financial state of what is going on.

There are only a few ways out. Trum says that Hillary caused a disaster in the Middle East. Trump says that Merkel was crazy to allow 1 million refugees who have had no background checks into Germany.

The reason Trump has etered therace and taken all the flak from the media and the bought and paid for is because he intends to sort it out without creating a calamity.

There will be losers - the Jihadis, the fundamentalists and probably China, but the US, Russia and Europe will be winners.

It won't take a generation to defeat the DJs, it will take weeks and there won't be any need for "keeping at arm's length" and losing our liberties or way of life.

Egosumquisum · 08/01/2016 15:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pinkchampchoccies · 08/01/2016 15:00

A Swiss performance artist is protesting outside the Dom in Cologne
www.rundschau-online.de/koeln/performance-kuenstlerin-milo-moir--nackte-demonstriert-vor-dem-koelner-dom,15185496,33481136.html

OP posts:
LurcioAgain · 08/01/2016 15:01

Meph, I'm guessing you and I agree on the likelihood of such a stategy succeeding in any meaningful way (i.e., it can't). No-one's denying that we in the west have the military hardware to bomb them into the stone age (to use one of the rather less savoury phrases used in the Gulf War). But (again I think we agree on this) it couldn't be done without enormous loss of life among civilians unaffiliated to ISIS, or indeed, currently held captive by ISIS. Any attempt to do this could only be done as a form of coldly premeditated genocide - you take out ISIS by killing everyone in the area.

As you say, the alternative is an enormous commitment to conquest and annexation - and (the real lesson of Vietnam) - you can throw as many troops as you want at the problem, but without civilian support (and you won't get it) such a war could not be won. Not to mention that imperial conquest is a pretty immoral thing to engage in.

LumelaMme · 08/01/2016 15:02

Destroying ISIS overt military power would be incredibly easy from a military standpoint. Securing the territory to prevent it's return would be all but impossible without a full commitment (including civilian support) to conquest, annexation and neo-imperialist social restructuring.
Indeed. And 'securing the territory' would have to be against jihadi guerrillas. It wouldn't be pretty.

MephistophelesApprentice · 08/01/2016 15:02

Pinkchampchoccies

It's an evolution of the standard approach of most tyrannies - you create threats that drive people to willingly subjugate themselves to get protection. In the past, it's been a matter of propaganda and illusion; What I believe claig is suggesting is that it could escalate to the manipulation of genuine threats to create irrevocable effects - after all, it would be possible to engineer a situation where only those who professed loyalty survived, creating a bias over time to the submissive.

Not that I necessarily believe in this sort of thing; the human mind is geared to identifying patterns and prejudiced towards thinking those patterns are representative of conscious will.

Constancegardner · 08/01/2016 15:04

Lurcio, in your web searching have you come across a young man who has a YouTube site? He is an immigrant to Sweden, most of his broadcasts are in Swedish but some in English, he berates those who have gone to Sweden happy to take its benefits both financial and such things as free speech whilst not integrating and with no intentions of, and denying free speech to others at the same time. It's a while since I saw it, so hazy on details, am supposed to be doing stuff now but will search later. Interesting.
Why is it I feel the need to write I'm not a racist? I'm not, after this is a cultural/religious/societal issue so nothing to do with skin tone, yet the word racist seems to be a handy gag on such issues and results in self censorship and lack of reporting of actual events and misdeeds. It's form of mind control, we so fear being labelled we are made mute.

claig · 08/01/2016 15:05

'why on Earth?'

Have you not been listening to the great and the good, the Lords and the Ladies, the Sirs and the Dames, the Barons and the Baronesses, the princes and the regents, the puppets and the bought and paid for?

Haven't you heard them talk about the "planet"?

"David Attenborough - Humans are plague on Earth

Humans are a plague on the Earth that need to be controlled by limiting population growth, according to Sir David Attenborough."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/9815862/Humans-are-plague-on-Earth-Attenborough.html

We are told that there are too many of us, that we are using up resources, that we are a plague.

LurcioAgain · 08/01/2016 15:05

I like that Swiss performance artist, Pink.

batshitlady · 08/01/2016 15:05

I agree with Trump on Hilary Clinton. Monstrous woman ...But Trump, the saviour? There's an illness in politics for sure but he's just the rash it's come out in.

LumelaMme · 08/01/2016 15:09

It won't take a generation to defeat the DJs,
If the Iraq war was over in weeks, it's been a very bloody peace. Defeating troops on the battlefield is one thing. Establishing a new, stable, accepted government is quite another. You have to rebuild the state, while fighting guerrillas. Good luck with that one.

claig · 08/01/2016 15:10

'Securing the territory to prevent it's return would be all but impossible without a full commitment (including civilian support) to conquest, annexation and neo-imperialist social restructuring.'

No, all it would need is another Saddam Hussein or Gaddafi.

'Trump: World would be '100%' better with Hussein, Gadhafi in power'

edition.cnn.com/2015/10/25/politics/donald-trump-moammar-gadhafi-saddam-hussein/

Don't be fooled by the media that stops people being allowed to comment on stories, Trump is not mucking about. He didn't enter for a laugh and the tens of thousands of people attending his rallies while 5 people attend some of his opponents meetings are intending to vote.

Everybody's future is at stake.

Pinkchampchoccies · 08/01/2016 15:12

"yet the word racist seems to be a handy gag on such issues and results in self censorship"

Constance this is one of the most important topics for me on this thread.

It is official now that the Cologne police kept silent about the nationality of some of the mob and even failed to brief the mayor MS Reker on the nationality of these men. She found this information out through the media, not through the policy chief.

The police withheld this information from the mayor and from the press in order to protect the safety of immigrants, so the newspaper article states.

www.rundschau-online.de/koeln/sexuelle-uebergriffe-am-koelner-hauptbahnhof-koelner-polizei-soll-herkunft-verdaechtiger-verheimlicht-haben,15185496,33477164.html

It is also understood now that the prime intention was sexual harassment, not mugging.

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polentapies · 08/01/2016 15:12

From the Guardian Comments on today's article
Article
"If they were primarily sexually motivated, done for kicks or fuelled by assumptions about western women’s sexual availability, then surely there would be no reason to steal the victims’ valuables. Rapists seek power, not money"
Comment
---Ah I see, its clear now. They simply thought that German women carry their valuables in their vaginas and it was all just a big misunderstanding.
Well now you have explained they are only theives its all ok.

I think this sums up perfectly the nonsense argument that this was about robbery

Constancegardner · 08/01/2016 15:13

I don't think David Attenborough is advocating war as a means of controlling population growth, war is no good for the environment nor other living creatures caught up in it. He is right there are too many and resources are not infinite. There can only be more conflict, water, food, land, all finite.
We are living in the anthropocene and it ain't pretty.