Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve Part II

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Just in case people want to continue discussing this.

hidden Thanks, I know!

I think his argument was more on the lines that we have enough misogyny in our culture; he used the examples of Loaded, the Ched Evans case and his friends banter asking each other if they had 'smashed it' (shagged someone). While all that is true, I still feel that women having to run a gauntlet of groping hands is far worse than the above (not that we should have to accept either) and that it is not an overreaction. Plus, even while accepting the misogynist element in our own culture, this is quite new and we are not unreasonable to ask if that culture of the people is the cause of their behaviour.

The fucker was so smug in his 'victory' in the debate at the end, with what I think is dodgy logic, it has irritated me ever since. I just need some logic applied by you clever women

hefzi I think they're all like that tbh

He's not good at it tbh.

I think a problem is (and you see it in the guardian articles) that they are trying to polarise the argument so if you have an issue, you must automatically side with the far right fuckwits.

The 'grey area' never seems to include any introspection and realise that what they have been championing does in fact have flaws, as others have said its like they prefer to throw us under the bus and victim blame instead of actually ask or address the common trait that is inherent in many of the cases come to light.

As for a petition, I think it needs another approach, I detest them as it is the most basic form of slactavism, you see it here all the time, it's just a case of 'I've signed' then move on and forget, not only that 38degrees et al hold no political weight etc. You also have to be prepared that any petition will be jumped on by the far right fuckwits so your arguments are going to have to be robust so as to counter the automatically dismissal that it they have signed it (ifysim)

/rant

If you like I could post it here a a possible template for you to mash about as you see fit. 'You' = 'any poster who wants to write in'.

I would love to use your letter as a template.

Writing to mps and meps may have no impact, but our next chance to vote in the general election is years away. What do we do in the meantime? Just wait for it to happen again? I'm scared that if something isn't done now, then there will be even less of a chance of anyone in any position of power listening to us and taking the threat to our rights seriously, because by then, we will have spent years of possibly watching further organised sexual attacks on women, adapting our behaviour, limiting out freedoms etc. that there'll be no urgency.

I apologise if I sound angry, I'm just frustrated and not having a go anyone personally, but is waiting til the next general election our best hope? I want to weep. Really truly weep, because I worry it'll be too late by then. :(

Dogstrummer that's appalling. A Labour party meeting with segregated seating...Where was it?

That particular one was in Birmingham. There are other examples though (some under the Labour banner, some under their "front" organisations.

I've just read that up to 500 men stormed a nightclub in Bielefeld and assaulted women, also on NYE. Finding it hard to find a reliable link though. What the fuck is happening? I don't think there is any denying that these were well planned, coordinated attacks. Terrorism plain and simple.

The Left had a real crisis with the collapse of the Soviet bloc in 1989 when the beliefs of its most hardcore adherents lost all their last shreds of credibility. Since then they've focused on straightforward causes like public sector unions (far easier to organise large static blocs that are already well covered by employment legislation than get involved in the increasingly fragmented private sector whose conditions have worsened markedly in the past few decades.) They've also devoted themselves to championing the rights of minority groups, which is in itself a worthy cause but not when it overrides gender equality, free speech or other core tenets of western society. Which leaves them in a bit of a bind because their original core voters (indigenous working class) are quite alienated by all this. Hope that's not too harsh an assessment.

I'm still reeling from the implications of the relative silence on this on social media from feminists I know - the ones who get into a rage about Tim Hunt or that cricketer or Rey not being in the Star Wars set. If women like that - educated, confident, articulate - are silent, what hope is there for everyone else? I find I get less scared as I get older about voicing my opinion - but the cost is being called awful things and smeared with racism and xenophobia and all sorts; luckily I'm quite thick-skinned these days. Fuck though.

Liesel absolutely. I feel that watching our freedoms gradually disappear is going to be like watching water slowly drain from the bathtub (segregated of course)

See what has happened in Sweden.

So many typos as usual, sorry

Folks, to save me pm-ing people, would you mind if I posted my letter here for anyone who wants it to use as a template? It's a bit long...

They've also devoted themselves to championing the rights of minority groups, which is in itself a worthy cause but not when it overrides gender equality, free speech or other core tenets of western society

This Absolutely

I'm still reeling from the implications of the relative silence on this on social media from feminists I know - the ones who get into a rage about Tim Hunt or that cricketer or Rey not being in the Star Wars set. If women like that - educated, confident, articulate - are silent, what hope is there for everyone else
Yup, them, Ego, and also some of the women I know on FB, who jump around about many things but not, apparently, women's rights.

I thought the feminists would have seized upon this with both hands (and teeth)

Dunno what feminism is now

but is waiting til the next general election our best hope?

You can protest, but will be accused of Islamaphobia/racism. Ask UKIP about that.

I'm still reeling from the implications of the relative silence on this on social media from feminists I know

I've seen people shouted off the Mumsnet Feminism boards for being "Islamaphobes" during a thread about the Burka. You couldn't make it up...

If disliking a religion that openly treats women & LGBT people as chattels & scum makes me a racist, then fine. I'll wear that one with pride!

The mumsnet feminists approve of the Burkha? Well I never

I suspect they think about things in too convoluted a manner then.

Yes well it's all very well being a feminist but if it starts to upset the men, well, we could have that now could we?

Just been watching the news about the demonstrations in Cologne today on C4 news. They then interviewed Nigel Farage and as much as I loathe the man, it was the first time ever I agreed with him!

Cellardoor Bielefeld is a whole new level of incident, if it is indeed connected. (Sorry my German is not good enough to know the answer to that.) Besieging a night club is completely different level of organisation from just walking up to random women in open air...

Yes it's a gift for old Nigel. The EU referendum is going to be a bloodbath

shins, I wonder about the Left too. I think it's lost its way, I really do. There's an element within it that doesn't seem to value western culture: nothing 'the West' does is ever right. There are certainly still 'leftist' (as they call themselves) academics about who complain that books which criticise communist regimes 'encourage the discourse' that capitalism is best and that communism has failed. I'm not kidding. I heard one of them at it vs another academic who had grown up under communism and knew whereof she spoke, but apparently she should have kept her gob shut. Shocking.

Maybe that's part of. European women are part of western culture, and therefore to sections of the Left are less worthy than they might be.

Can you please post links re Bielefeld ?

translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschland%2Farticle150798244%2FHunderte-sollen-Bielefelder-Disco-attackiert-haben.html&edit-text=&act=url

Google translate of the Welt article that is reporting Beilefeld