Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

How can Israel be apartheid?

This should answer your question:

Five must-read opinion pieces about Israel's nation-state bill

Palestine is the Palestinian's homeland, and should continue to be so.

Not much chance of that, though, is there?

Another victory for BDS movement!! - Brazil has cancelled a massive deal with Israeli company Elbit Systems.

[[http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2014/12/07/elbit-systems-loses-brazilian-military-satellite-deal-following-bds-protests/]

Tarson Nuñéz, the coordinator of the international relations department of the Rio Grande do Sul government described his government’s decision by saying:

“Our government has always given centrality to the promotion of peace and human rights and considers the demands of the social movements and important voice that needs to be heard. Today’s announcement is a logical consequence of this"

Boycott Israel! It is having an impact!

Link again:

jewishbusinessnews.com/2014/12/07/elbit-systems-loses-brazilian-military-satellite-deal-following-bds-protests/

Peace not hate.
Boycotts spread hate.
How can you celebrate this? This is meant to help the Palestinians?

Peace not hate

Bulldozing olive trees and homes, seizing land, and shooting farmers trying to work their fields in the shadow of Israel's Apartheid Wall, spreads hate.

Peaceful Boycotts, not one millionth as much.

Demolishing peopl's homes for crimes they didnt commit spreads hate. Bombing caged civillians spreads hate, creating apartheid state spreads hate. Boycott Movement just tells you that the world is watching and is appalled by Israel's racism. By destroying Palestinians, your leaders are destroying Israel from within. The people in power promote illigal settlements. This only spreads hate, not peace.

How about Israel takes its finger off the self-destruct button and starts talking peace - that is the only solution if it truly wants to live and let live. And yes, that means giving back the Palestinians what is theirs, rather than the lies that it usually offers.

Yruapita - "giving the Palestinians back what is theirs" ... what do you expect them to give, and what do you expect them to get in return?

PigletJohn - "Israel's Apartheid Wall" - Since the wall and fence has been erected, there has been a dramatic fall in the number of civilian deaths from terrorist attacks.

I do agree with you that by destroying Palestinians, Israel destroys itself. And vice versa.

Ahem, when you say "your leaders" - ???? - neither side are my leaders. They neither lead me nor represent me.

Peace not hate - this refers to the nastiness of the BDS movement. This thread absolutely thrums with anti-Israel hatred. Don't kid yourself that this nastiness and hate has consequences that are in any way peaceful.

If I choose not to buy an apricot that has been grown in the Occupied Territories, by an Illegal Settlement, on the site of a thousand-year old olive grove that was destroyed by Israeli invaders, and has been untruthfully and illegally labelled "Produce of Israel," please explain why you consider that my choice is nasty, hateful, anti-Israel and unpeaceful.

what do you expect them to give, and what do you expect them to get in return?

Give them back all illegally occupied Palestine. The displaced Palestinians have a far greater right to return than anyone else. Give them equality and security in return for Israel's equality and security.

Since the wall and fence has been erected, there has been a dramatic fall in the number of civilian deaths from terrorist attacks

Yeah, since then, there has been a dramatic increase in the state terrorism inflicted by Israel on civilian Palestinian men, women and children. The wall does not tell the world that Israel was protecting itself, it sends out the message that Israel created an apartheid wall, caged a nation and took more of their land in the process.

If you think that Israel is all about peace, love and harmonious democracy then you are extremely deluded.

"Forget democracy. This is an ethnocracy. This is a Jewish supremacist state. So – no pretense of democracy. And that’s a very important development because it’s revealing Israel’s true nature. The last mask of Israel’s so-called democracy has been dropped".

Link

Any thoughts on egypt's destruction of Palestinian homes and closure of Raffah border? been going on for around a month or so...

unitedwithisrael.org/egypt-destroys-60-tunnels-800-homes-where-is-the-outrage/

whatabout, whatabout, you mean?

that's possibly worth starting an "Egypt and the Palestinians" thread. If you care enough.

You remind me of the Apartheid-era SA diplomats and sympathisers, who were trained to divert questions about institutionalised racism by changing the subject onto African dictators.

PigletJohn - you say that another contributer reminds you of apartheid era sympathisers. Your hate-filled rhetoric reminds me of many unsavoury times throughout history when people sought to divide, rather than unite, to vilify and victimise a single group.

Last week there was a sermon at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem where, Sheik Omar Abu Sara called to slaughter the Jews, whom he called "the most evil of Allah's creations."(YouTube).

In Johannesburg last month, BDS supporters dumped a pig's head in the kosher aisle of a food store.

And here you all are, congratulating yourself on a campaign of spreading hatred around the world, with negligible benefit to the Palestinians.

sergeantmajor, you must try not to tell such fibs.

I am not "spreading hatred"

I am not using "hate-filled rhetoric"

I am not calling for ethnic slaughter

I have never dumped a pigs head in the kosher section of a supermarket.

I am however commenting on a person who sympathises with an oppressive regime, and who employs a tactic previously employed by supporters of another oppressive regime.

pointing out that israel is breaking international law, committing war crimes and atrocities against human rights does not equal hateful rhetoric for god's sake.

bear in mind all it would take from israel is a genuine commitment to follow international law, cease committing war crimes and observe human rights legislation and everyone would happily change their point of view. boycotting would stop, etc.

hardly a BIG ask is it?

All it would take is the palestinians to stop murdering innocent Israelis.

All it would have taken is for the palestinians to have accepted the many offers of land (95% of what they requested including a huge chunk of Jerusalem), previously, rather than say no and continue sending suicide bombers into Israel.

All it would take is for the palestinians to agree that Israel has a right to exist and not call for the very destruction of both it and Jews generally.

and on and on and on.

all it would take for what karenin? israel to stop commiting war crimes? should following international law be conditional do you think?

or all it would take to stop murdering civilians in their thousands? is that conditional?

sorry but you are unclear. all it would take is part one of a sentence that you haven't ended.

How does one negotiate peace with those who want to slaughter the Jews?

Please click the link from the jeruselam post below.

www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/WATCH-Palestinian-preacher-at-Al-Aksa-mosque-threatens-to-slaughter-Jews-383993

i dare say the palestinians sitting in the rubble of their homes looking for the corpses of their family and friends asked themselves the same karenin - but from the persective of actual reality carried out by a military force under the orders of a government rather than rhetoric of extremists.

a preacher at a mosque hardly compares to thousands of soldiers with the best guns, bombs and drones in the world does it?

not to mention that you don't get to show outrage at something a religious leader in a mosque says when you've had israeli mp calling all palestinians including women and children snakes who need to be exterminated in the israeli equivalent of the houses of parliament without any disciplinary action.

or is a stand alone imam held to higher standards than elected, paid, public representative?

for another bit of context - you can find religious leaders in mosques, churches, etc of extremist leanings here in the uk calling for the destruction of gay people, adulterers, women who have sex etc. we don't decide well we better commit war crimes against them or use it as an excuse to ethnically cleanse ourselves of religious people.

however if someone, a member of government or other elected official stood up in the houses of parliament and called for the destruction of a group they would be fired.

'church of nazarene leader says gay people are an abomination and should be purged from civil society' is hardly comparable to, 'MP says gay people are vermin that should be exterminated' in headline news is it?

quite clear why surely?

that's even without said MP being part of a political movement that has actually killed thousands of gay people this year.

proportionality.

apples and pears.

again.

KareninsGirl

How does one negotiate peace with those who take your land, destroy your home, ethnically cleanse your homeland of your people, and slaughter thousands of your people?

a British Muslim visits Israel and is interviewed afterwards.

www.israelvideonetwork.com/a-british-muslim-visits-israel-for-the-first-time-his-shocking-reaction-will-shock-you/

have you got the corresponding interview of a British Jew who visits an Arab village in Israel with no mains water or electricity?