Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

unless pigletjohn they think that israel is inherently inhumane and inseperable from 'inhuman treatment' and that's why they assume anti humane treatment is synonymous with being anti israel.

surely they couldn't have such a twisted view of israel though?

Sorry if people think I was 'banging on' about the past. I was simply responding to SM's question asking for justification of my statement about 'manipulation'. That comment was made in the context of what the solution might be and was based on my view that you can't just start from 'now,' or from 1967, but you have to face up to the facts of the whole sorry saga. It's all far too convenient to say let's not think about this, that or the other, when it suits. I.e 'don't harp on about nakba', but can you imagine the uproar if any diplomat said anything about 'moving forward' from holocaust memorials? The inequality goes on ad finitum...

I also think new poster got it bang on saying information won't persuade cpeople to reconsider their views. I'm surprised at the strength of rejection of certain ideas when this is based on no research at all just wooly 'that's ridiculous!' type comments. Others might not be interested in the past, and I'm happy to restrict comment here to the present, but it won't stop me from doing my own research and reading cos I'm interested in learning about what happened and why.

QnBoudi - any of Tom Segev's books are very interesting and well worth reading (a description of how he helped change another author's perceptions here.

To get back to the present, Haaretz reports that Israeli President Reuben Rivlin talked about the importance of coexistence with children and teachers from the Jewish-Arab Hand in Hand School in Jerusalem, which was the victim of a recent arson attack. Around 800 schoolchildren in Jerusalem attended a solidarity march with the Hand in Hand School.

Rivlin seems quite an interesting figure - on one hand he is very right-wing, has never opposed any military action and supports more settlement building in the West Bank. On the other hand, he is very supportive of minority rights and anti-racism, and favours a one-state solution with the Palestinians given Israeli citizenship.

I think you need to look at the history in order to understand why things are the way they are. The bottom line is that a great injustice has been done to the Palestinians and continues to be perpetrated against them and their livelihoods. settlers make me sick

50,000 olive trees have been destroyed in the last five years by these violent, despicable settler terrorists. I urge everyone to buy Palestinian olive oil.

Boycott Israeli goods.

sodastream outlets sold palestinian olive oil but sadly the BDS saw fit to target them so viciously they eventually had to close.

I bought it on a number of occasions and was very sad to see this happen.

Karenins, what...you bought palestinian olive oil from soda stream? You know you can still purchase Palestinian olive oil without going through soda stream. Poor ethical soda stream trying to put Palestinians before profit - i think not!

With that sort of logic, you can argue that pay day loan companies are there to benefit the vulnerable but sadly debt charities saw fit to target them so viciously that sadly people became more aware of how royally these payday loan companies can screw you over, leading to a dip in profits.

It sickens me and is very telling how you can support companies like soda stream. I bet you wouldn't feel the same way if it was you that was the victim rather than the beneficiary and it is sad that you lack empathy for human beings but are sad for corporations who have to close down unethical operations.

Boycott Israeli goods!

So are you saying that a company that encouraged Israeli/palestinian cohesion deserved to be targeted and shut down?

An interesting description of Sodastream.

Is it "promoting cohesion" to build a factory on Illegally Occupied land?

No, it is employing as many palestinian workers as Israelis and indeed having palestinian workers in positions of authority within the factory. It is also paying the same wage to their valued palestinian workers as their valued Israeli workers (which incidentally was around 4 times higher than the national average palestinian wage) enabling over 400 palestinians to support their families financially and securely. It was also having Israelis and palestinians working side by side . soda stream should have been regarded as something to aspire to, not something to be hijacked by those who wish to see any attempt at real cohesion fail.

The factory was actually in disputed land, not occupied.

but hey, let's just focus on those horrid Israelis rather than a real working partnership between Israelis and palestinians.

Any bank robber can describe the ownership of his sack of loot as "disputed."

But will anyone else?

Which of the Occupied Territories and the Illegal Settlements would you describe as "not disputed?"

Dunno bout encouraging cohesion... Doesn't quite fit with not allowing visitors or responding to direct questions on the working conditions for palestinians: corporateoccupation.org/they-destroyed-out-lives-and-then-gave-a-few-people-a-job-it-is-nothing-some-unanswered-questions-for-sodastream/#more-2123.

and yet...

SodaStream - Building Bridges, Not Walls:

Not sure how to convert to a link sorry.

I would ask you to just for a moment try to lower your defences and see the other side.

I watched the video entirely and my unresolved question is if it's all so great, why oh why aren't the Palestinians independently pointing to this utopian hand-in-hand model of bliss and prosperity? Why are they all calling for the world to boycott it? But here's the actual Palestinian response: electronicintifada.net/content/sodastream-treats-us-slaves-says-palestinian-factory-worker/12441

They have NOTHING to gain from badmouthing something genuinely positive, do they? Why jeopardise their wonderful jobs and the opportunity to 'build bridges' by lying? Whereas management ... Hmm just a few gains to be made with a colossal spin on reality.

- Building Bridges, Not Walls: 0

But the palestinians have over and over again requested that the products are not boycotted.

It is mainly Europeans who are driving the boycotts, against the palestinians wishes.

- Building Bridges, Not Walls: 0

hope this one works

Are you trying to suggest that your favourite company can justify Illegal Occupation and Settlements?

the factory has relocated to a town in the centre of israel with the loss of 1.700 Palestinian workers, who now have no means of supporting their extended families, or any health insurance!

not exactly supporting either the palestinians or cohesion since the factory was forced to close is it?

No pj, I'm suggesting there was an opportunity that was stamped upon by boycotters whose actions in getting the factory closed ultimately made over 1000 palestinian lives worse off.

www.blog.standforisrael.org/articles/palestinians-bds-activists-are-troublemakers-criminals

perhaps it'd be better to read what the palestinians themselves have said.

I can't quite decide whether the pro-israelis deliberately lie or are so deluded that even they don't know what's what anymore.

Karenins, do you support nutty yahu's vision of peace and harmony by adopting apartheid and to make some more equal than others in declaring Israel a jewish state?

When Palestinian land is invaded and seized, when Palestinian olive trees are wantonly destroyed, and homes bulldozed, and when farmers are shot when trying to work their fields in the shadow of Israel's Apartheid wall, does that cause less or more suffering than your 1700 job losses?

Some more dirty land grab tactics by Israel.

How can Israel be apartheid? only today the chief justice officer for israel was sworn in and he was an arab.

I feel personally that Israel has been the Jewish homeland for over 3000 years and should continue to be so.

that does not mean that other races and religions cannot live there too...They already do!