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Original poster

ISRAEL;WHEN WILL THE WEST DO SOMETHING... PART II

750 replies

UCM · 27/07/2006 23:53

Here goes....

OP posts:
saadia · 02/08/2006 20:14

Israel is now running rampant in Lebanon, they have pretty much taken over. They can do what they like to whom they like. Who will ever know how many captives they are taking and what will happen to them?

saadia · 02/08/2006 20:15

She has made some pretty ignorant and offensive comments about Muslims.

SenoraPostrophe · 02/08/2006 20:20

it is a long thread saadia!

offensive comments about the religion or about the people (because the first is OK in my book, the second not)

DominiConnor · 02/08/2006 20:21

I don't share that cynical view of Blair.

I have a much more cynical view...
I think that he genuinelky believes that he's doing pretty much the right thing. Like Bush he talks to God, and presumably gets what he thinks are answers. He is of course much quieter about his faith than Bush, but I think he does see the world in those terms.
Of course, religion is an excuse to do the worst things that people do. If you merely want to steal somethimg from someone, or to stop them doing something, you do what is necessary. But if you feel they are enemies of God and basically evil then pretty much any means can be justified by the ends, and being cruel to them is actually a good thing.

SenoraPostrophe · 02/08/2006 20:24

dc - have you ever heard William Burroughs' words of advice for young people? he says "If you're doing business with a religious son-of-a-bitch,
Get it in writing.
His word isn't worth shit.
Not with the good lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal" You just reminded me of it. perhaps it does describe tb.

FairyMum · 02/08/2006 20:24

But wasn't it Cherie who commented that she could understand why some Palestinians became suicide bombers growing up in the reality they did a few years ago? I seem to remember she got into trouble for it. Just wondering if they have very opposing views?

SenoraPostrophe · 02/08/2006 20:25

I think they do have opposing views. apparently chrie is a socialist.

saadia · 02/08/2006 20:32

both SenorApostrophe. It's not OK to spread untruths about a religion or its followers.

SenoraPostrophe · 02/08/2006 20:34

I haven't seen any openly anti-muslim posts though - there's stuff about what may or may not be in the Qu'ran but that is debated by muslims. I don't think that religions are sacrosanct (as it were) though and perhaps I'm unusual. Islam and Judaism are the root causes of this bloody conflict after all.

ruty · 02/08/2006 20:34

it was Cherie. And she had to withdraw the comment. Egocentricity and a belief in God are a very dangerous combination, as Blair demonstrates. I'm not sure Bush has a faith at all actually. I don't think he is able to differentiate between having a personal faith and jumping on the bandwagon of the majority of his supporters.

saadia · 02/08/2006 20:40

How is Islam the cause of this bloody conflict?

saadia · 02/08/2006 21:09

I'm not convinced that Judaism is the cause either - if it is true that the Jewish homeland is only supposed to some about after the arrival of their Messiah.

doobydoo · 02/08/2006 21:09

I Think Blair is really a career politician.He is as much a socialist as Margaret Thatcher.I too had read that Cherie is a socialist tho i don't really believe that!

MadamePlatypus · 02/08/2006 21:18

I think that Bush and Blair's big problem is that their justification of the war in Iraq is that it is possible to wipe out terrorists/guerilla fighters through superior military power. I am not sure what in history justifies this theory, but the result is that they have to back the Israeli government's belief that it is possible to get rid of terrorists with bombs. Personally, I imagine that many of the current terrorists were bread in the upheavals of 1982, and that the children being bombed today will be the terrorists of 2026.

To go off at a tangent, I read a theory in the papers that it was necessary for the Israeli government to fight back hard against any attacks if they were to get support from the Israeli people for support for withdrawal from the occupied territories i.e. withdrawal would only be acceptable if the Israelis could show that they would go so far and no further. I think they are now in an awful mess, but this does make sense to me.

On another tangent, I think it is very unhelpful to compare Zionists to Hitler. If anybody would like to talk imperialism I would refer them to British history up to about the 60's.

Heathcliffscathy · 02/08/2006 21:18

donnie, have any of your posts been deleted???

if so WHY????

Heathcliffscathy · 02/08/2006 21:18

donnie, have any of your posts been deleted???

if so WHY????

ruty · 02/08/2006 21:26

very senmsible and interesting post Madame Platypus.

Uwila · 02/08/2006 21:27

SO, sophable (now that we are friends ), are you coming to the meet-up or what?!?!

donnie · 02/08/2006 21:33

yes they have sophable. I stated that lisalisa's posts proved that she believes that Israel is above God and above the law and that they can treat others as they please with impunity. Her posts prove that belief.I have been censored for saying this but I will continue to say it until I am proved wrong. Her posts are intrinsically racist and anti Palestinian.'No-one forced them to leave....Israel is a lamb surrounded by wolves' etc. And for pulling the tired old anti semitism card which basically means: if you dare say anything remotely opposing the actions of Israel that means you are antisemitic.What a convenient escape clause that is.

I agree with DC's suggestion: let us imagine the Israeli army are actually Germans or Brazilians ( or whatever)- are their actions any more or less acceptable?

anyway, I am still here!

mimoyello · 02/08/2006 21:45

platypus - I don't think I or anyone else actually compared Zionism to Hitler. I compared Zionism to fascism - a rather different matter altogether.

I don't know why people only associate fascism with Hilter and his gas chambers. He may have been the most memorable advocate of it, but he isn't the only one and the fact is that fascist theories were not invented by Hitler, they had existed for centuries before Hitler and they still exist in many different parts of the world.

The Israeli State practices a particular form of fascism, whether or not its supporters agree with this argument or not.

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 21:51

Message withdrawn

mimoyello · 02/08/2006 21:52

Well yes, if you are told you are "the chosen people" from the day you are born, you can actually make yourself believe you are above all else.

As a friend of mine says: "such people actually BELIEVE their own propoganda".

saadia · 02/08/2006 21:56

lisalisa I objected to your comments about Muslims.

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:03

Message withdrawn

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:07

Message withdrawn