ISRAEL;WHEN WILL THE WEST DO SOMETHING... PART II

[UCM]

Here goes....

And if so, would surrounding countries respect it's right to exist?

hi h2d

This thread is about the conflict in the ME (srael/Lebanon/Palestine).

It was asserted that those who oppose Israeli policies do not see this in the context of Jewish suffering throughtout history, and that there is anti-Semitism. It was also brought out that Arabs and the world see this as the product of a colonialism.

You are a psychologist and you are trained to look deeply into the words people use in order to decipher what is in their minds. In this regard I have benefited from your searches and analysis, even if I think that maybe, just maybe, you read things into what people write that they are not saying, because some people do not have the vocabulary that other articulate persons have, or they do not take the time needed to pass the scrutiny of a psychologically aware person ausch as you.

I don't think I have tried to change the direction. In the last posts it was clear you were going to answer my question, and then you went back to your ananlysis of my assertion of the difference of treatment between Arabs and Israelis by Skynews. I think all posters later accepted a media slant.

Whatever the source of the beach explosion, the fact is that seven Palestinians died, and the Sky and BBC do not have the name of a single Palestinian. There are over 9000 Arab prisoners in Israel, and the West does not have a list. It has the names of the three soldiers.

You look at the news and analysis, and you will see that most of the time Arab casualties are just statistics, the US and Asraeli victims have names and families and reaction from those who have known the victims.

My question is important, and does not deviate. I thought you would answer it.

please bear in mind you may not be able to post freely here in future

PD - you are right about the names of the Israeli soldiers being well-known. In fact there is a website offering $10 million for info. to get them released.

A colleague of mine received an email only last week (in Persian and Arabic) asking him whether he had any info. about the whereabouts of the Israeli soldiers. My friend (an Iranian lawyer working here in London)was absolutley furious, he didn't understand why HE should receive such an email as he has absolutely no links to any orgs. either here or in Iran or in Lebanon, he has lived in Europe since he was a child and has very little interest in ME politics.

He called me to tell me it was outrageous that ordinary Iranians or Arabs should receive emails directly from an Israeli org. I agree with him. It is just a demonstration of the Israeli thought process - that ALL Iranians/Arabs have a terrorist link.

So it turns out the parents of these soldiers with vast amounts of money from the Israeli govt. (the website states it is supported by the Israeli Govt.) are offering $10 million for information to find a the soldiers.

The question in my mind is how much will Israel pay to Palestinian/Lebanese parents as compensation for killing their children "by mistake"? I gather the answer is not a pennny.

I will find the website and provide the link if I can.

bubble - I think returning the occupied territories would be agood FIRST step. However as we have seen with Gaza, returning any land which was taken contrary to International Law, is not a guarantee that the Palestinains or Lebanese will be allowed to live in peace. Israeli planes will still be able to fly over them and intimidate them whenever they fancy.

Egypt has already signed a peace treaty with Israel recognising its existence (1978). If Israel wishes to have its borders honoured, it must also learn to honour its international obligations.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I think that other Arabs/Iran will make a lasting peace with Israel and recognise its existence if they receive substantial security in return. There would be absolutely no need for Hamas or Hizbollah if Israel learned to respect international law.

Of course the problem we have now is that both the US/UK are routinely breaching international law (i.e they are not setting a good example for anyone), so I don't see any propspects of peace in the next few months or years.

Here is the link to the $10 million reward site:

have a look atthis

zippi - are you kidding ?

This is interesting

Bump

Can you tell us what it is ? I can't open it.

Never done a link before! Does this work? It's an Arab-American psycholgist called Wafa Sultan being interviewed on Al Jazeera.

Bump again

Is it coz i is new?????

The link takes you to a page to download windows media player 11.

Fuzzywuzzy, I think the 1:09pm link works.

both links take you to the media player update.

Try manually

switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

mamma - I watched the video clip. Her discussion is so baseless and flawed and utterly devoid of historical content that I can only compare it to Kilory-Smith's Islamophobic rantings.

Her very first sentence is that "this is not a religious conflict" and then spends the rest of the time shouting and screaming (she is very annoyingly high-pitched) about the so-called barbaric, backwardness of ISLAM. Hello ?

Yes, totally agree that the Arab-Israeli conflict and the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon are NOT about Islam. The Arab-Israeli conflict is funadementally about human rights and RIGHTS TO LAND. It is therefore essentially a political conflict. The language of religion is used on both sides, but only the very simplistic minded would argue that it is about Islam v Judaism or Islam v Christinaity.

As for "clash of civilisations", it is absolute nonsense. Not only is it not about a clash of civilisations (wonderfully flawed and contradictory, if the Arabs have no civilisation nor culture, as she claims, how can it be a clash of civilisations ?) The Arabs did not invent the concept as she claims. Anyone who knows even a tiny bit about Jewish or Christian history (both religions preceded Islam by many centuries) would know that religious uniqueness or the concept of "the infidel" was not invented by the Muslims.

She talks about Jewish science as though it is the ONLY form of science and completely and deliberately fails to mention centuries of Arab and Persian contributions to science and the arts: Mathematics, Medicine, Philosophy, literature and architecture. She fails to mention that there was an enourmous amount of contact between the West and the Arab/Persian world at this time, with centres of Arab scientific learning right here in Europe (go to Southern Spain). Arabic became the language of scinece and learning stretching all the way from Spain to the borders of China just as Persian became the language of literature.

Amazingly she goes on and on about Muslim atrocities, yet fails to mention that the biggest atrocities inflicted on the Jews were perpetrated by non-Muslim, European nations - i.e anti-semitism is not a Muslim invention.

She also conveniently fails to mention Israel's persistent (60 years) breaches of humanitarian and international law and its well-established and well-funded terrorist organisations. Yes, true Israel doesn't blow up any Germans (unless they are Arab Germans of course) as revenage for the holocaust, but it blows of plenty of Arabs instead.

I think this kind of deliberate falsification of history is very unhelpful. She does nothing but prop up centuries long Islamophobia.

In fact her ignorance of her own culture is phenomenal. I am shocked that she can appear on a TV show and call herself an academic.

mimo, agree with your understanding of Wafa Sultan.

talk about a one-sided approach .

mamma - since you posted the clip, do you have any personal comments, or was the clip your statement of interest in this matter ?

Please note:

"MEMRI was founded in 1998 by its president Yigal Carmon, a retired colonel from Israeli military intelligence, and the academic Dr. Meyrav Wurmser"

Eh, interesting, pretty much explains why MEMRI is such a fan of our lovely Wafa !!

See the following:
www.sourcewatch.org

"Dr. Meyrav Wurmser is the Director and Senior Fellow at the Center for Middle East Policy at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C. She is married to David Wurmser. Like her husband, she is considered to be a "neo-con" (neo-conservative)".

Oh dear, oh dear, it gets worse by the minute !!

Try this for a slightly more balanced view:

this

interesting

Has anyone linked to this yet? It gives a different perspective, to say the least.

yes greensleeves very interesting. I would be interested to know whether or not any of the emigrants to Israel will end up living in illegal settlements though.