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Original poster

ISRAEL;WHEN WILL THE WEST DO SOMETHING... PART II

750 replies

UCM · 27/07/2006 23:53

Here goes....

OP posts:
saadia · 02/08/2006 22:08

The suggestion that good Muslims are taught to kill Jews.

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:08

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MNHQ
carriemumsnet · 02/08/2006 22:11

Hi all

Just to clarify we deleted a couple of posts which included personal attacks. As you know we try as much as possible not to intervene and to let the debate flow, but we'd like to just remind folks to have a look at our Talk philosophy here and keep the debate general rather than personal.

Many thanks

MN towers

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:12

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lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:14

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saadia · 02/08/2006 22:23

I think you are very good at taking quotes out of context and using them to mislead.

MadamePlatypus · 02/08/2006 22:25

I am always a bit confused by this chosen people thing. If I think about people who I know who are Jewish the things they have in common are that they are more likely to have been on holiday to Israel, more likely to have matzo's in the house and more likely to be visiting their family on a Friday night. They are no more likely to consider themselves chosen because of being Jewish than I am to not go dancing on a Sunday because my ancestors were Scottish puritans.

Meanwhile the Bible can give the Koran a run for its money on any day of the week when it comes to violent exhortations that everybody ignores.

Heathcliffscathy · 02/08/2006 22:28

i have to say i didn't see the posts in question, but some of your posts can have been interpreted as extremely personally offensive lisalisa imo.

but then, i'm not for censorship of any kind.....

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:28

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mimoyello · 02/08/2006 22:28

LL - I hate to bring up my education, but I studied International Relations for my BSc and MSc at let's just say one of the UK's top institutions. I have also studied International Law and am very familiar with Israel's well documented breaches of International Law, including it's latest invasion of Lebanon.

One of my specialist subjects was "Nationalism" which includes the study of fascist movements.

You are confusing fascist "States" with fascist "Ideologies" and fascist "Practices".

Fascist ideology can live and breed very happily within different environments, including countries that have a parliament. It does not require ONE strong leader, it can rule via an elected government. It does not need state control of the economy, it can have a laissez faire system, etc.

The dictionary definition is very basic I am afraid and does not tell us anything about the complexity of fascist ideology.

donnie · 02/08/2006 22:30

well yes you did see them lisalisa - how else would you know I had called you right wing? you know exactly what I accuse you of . So does everyone else on this thread. And you still haven't responded. Wonder why?

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:31

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lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:32

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lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:35

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donnie · 02/08/2006 22:38

This reply has been deleted

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doobydoo · 02/08/2006 22:39

Israel are in breach of a load of bloody policies.. and i hardly think losing ones rag on MN is a heinous crime.
Israel are being allowed to ride roughshod.
I think people will get defensive and emotive so stop being so bloody sanctimonious lisalisa

mimoyello · 02/08/2006 22:44

lisa - you can call me an anti-semite until the cows come home. I am not anti-debate.

I give myself credit for allowing both my religion and my country to be criticised for it's inhumanity to other nations.

Platypus - totally agree that most of the American and European Jews I know are as you describe, but that is because they have not been brought up in Israel. The ones I know are European first, Jewish second. They are immune to Israeli propoganda. This is rather different.

mimoyello · 02/08/2006 22:50

LL - I did not dismiss your dictionary definition because it doesn't support MY argument. I dismissed the definition because it is inaccurate.

lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:54

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lisalisa · 02/08/2006 22:55

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mimoyello · 02/08/2006 23:03

Yes of course it is inaccurate - it is a dictionary - it defines a "word" not an "ideology". It doesn't give me an understanding of politics.

Would you rely on your definition of "democracy" in the Oxford Dictionary ? I wouldn't.

MadamePlatypus · 02/08/2006 23:19

mimoyello, I don't know any Israelis, but presumably the people behind organisations such as 'Peace Now' are Israeli Jews?

lisalisa, see evilbible.com for loads of examples of biblical violence.

ruty · 02/08/2006 23:19

well lisalisa if your opinions are representative of most Israelis/Israel government then it is patently clear why talks cannot occur. Giving the Israeli side to all this would be helpful and insightful, but talking with such seeming moral superiority and casting the accusation of 'anti-semite' towards a vague mass of the posters seems an intention to gag those who disagree with you. Not once [forgive me if i am wrong] have you accepted that Lebanese/Palestinian people have as many human rights as Israelis. Very depressing I must say.

Heathcliffscathy · 02/08/2006 23:25

lisalisa it would help your credibility enormously if you could concede at least that tbh

ruty · 02/08/2006 23:26

BTW historically Christianity has an appalling record towards the jewish people, agree. But most of the quotes on that website [about God being wrathful and vengeful etc] are from the Old Testament. The New testament has its fair share of dubious statements, but lets not forget Judaism can be used for dodgy purposes too.

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