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Brexit
Original poster

There really is no point trying to persuade Leavers....

523 replies

Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 19:21

As the title suggests really. There is no point trying to reason a debate with them as they are totally tunnel-visioned. Loads of them seem to think we should leave without a deal and go on to WTO rules.

They blame the Remainers in parliament for us having not left yet.

They blame Remainers in general for, well, seemingly anything and everything.

They blame the EU for us not having left yet.

They spout myth as if it was fact.

I despair. There really is no point trying to reason with them.

I'm at the point where I feel there is nothing left to say on the topic so let them have their 'victory' so at least they will have no one to blame.

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bellinisurge · 25/06/2019 19:24

They will either ignore this or come on saying how mean you are.
I have been prepared to compromise insofar as I will accept a Brexit that means we don't mess up GFA. Like, say, the WA.
But that isn't Brexit-y enough and I am obviously some sort of wrecker.

Bearbehind · 25/06/2019 19:27

so at least they will have no one to blame.

Oh they will - it will be the EU’s fault, Remainers fault and anyone else’s fault for not letting us have our cake and eat it.

I agree there’s no point in discussing it though - it’s all about immigration and they don’t give a damn about anything else.

Peregrina · 25/06/2019 19:41

Oh they will - it will be the EU’s fault, Remainers fault and anyone else’s fault for not letting us have our cake and eat it.

Absolutely - look how the Tories have milked "It's all Labour's fault" up to now, even though it's the better part of a decade since Labour were in power.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 25/06/2019 19:45

I know one Leaver fairly well. He thinks it will be worth it “in the long term”

He’s just not prepared to say how long, or how shit it will be.

It’s like trying to reason someone out of a religious faith (not that you should do that). They’re not religious due to logical reasoning so you can use reason to turn them against their religion.

Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 19:47

It's so frustrating. If we let them get on with their sacred Leave, how can they blame anyone when it all turns to rats shit apart from themselves?

How on earth do they extrapolate that? If boris or whoever turns round and says 'right, were leaving the EU on 31st October without a deal', they would absolutely rejoice. Then I give it a week, tops that they'll be saying it's not what they bargained for, but seriously how would they blame Boris, or the EU, or remainers or anyone for giving them what they asked for??

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Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 19:50

Its just one big cult. I stupidly wandered over to the Leave pages of FB. I never comment, I just read the posts to try to understand the other sides point of view.

It's almost a dogmatic religion in itself.

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Peregrina · 25/06/2019 19:51

It will still be our fault for 'not getting behind them'. As it stands, Remainers are supposed to be doing all the work.

ATrampsVest · 25/06/2019 19:54

Look up cognitive dissonance. Basically it's human nature that once you publicly declare a belief you become stuck to it and keep defending it no matter how much evidence you are shown to the contrary. It actually takes a huge amount of personal strength to admit you are wrong about something. That's why politics is so entrenched.

AnnaComnena · 25/06/2019 19:54

it’s all about immigration and they don’t give a damn about anything else.

Despite many Leavers having explained their reasons repeatedly, in detail, over the last few years. And you wonder why Leavers don't want to talk to you.

Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 19:56

It is throughly depressing. In response to Bellini's post, there are literally huge swathes of them who are against the idea of the WA, claiming that is not what they voted for, they were given the option of Leave or Remain, and they collectively voted OUT! 🤦‍♀️

Some brave soul, asked a number of them, what kind Leave they actually voted for at the time and the response is always the same. Just to Leave. No mention of a Norway style agreement as cited by their great Demigod, Farage.

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Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 19:59

Anna - I don't believe we've spoken before as I tend not post about Brexit (until now). Would you mind telling me what it was about and what Leavers voted for? Feel free to say no, I am after all, just another internet stranger.

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lljkk · 25/06/2019 20:03

Defeatist attitude. Bj said so himself, so must be true. That's the only thing that made Brexit difficult.

Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 20:06

Despite many Leavers having explained their reasons repeatedly, in detail, over the last few years

Really am eager to hear these reasons. Haven't found any on Leave Means Leave page, apart EU army, Lisbon Treaty (which can be fact checked and is untrue) and unelected eurocrats. Are these the reasons?

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Bearbehind · 25/06/2019 20:07

Despite many Leavers having explained their reasons repeatedly, in detail, over the last few years. And you wonder why Leavers don't want to talk to you.

Absolutely, because none of their reasons made any sense or are not actually possible in practice which leads me to conclude it is actually only about immigration.

rosie39forever · 25/06/2019 20:10

Good luck with getting any kind of answer, I've asked Friends, family, colleagues and randoms on the internet how my life's going to be better after Brexit, I've asked repeatedly for 3 years and still not one can give me a positive answer, leavers have become one massive cult and they don't give a shite about people loosing their jobs or any other disasters is outcome.

Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 20:11

I guess Anna won't be coming back. I don't even want to argue the toss with a Leaver as there isn't much point. I'd only be blamed for being a remoaner so it's easier to let them think what they want to think and say nothing.

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Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 20:14

I think they see it as being patronised if they are asked their reasons. I can sort of vaguely understand why that is.

It's the human psyche. They've opted for something and now they're being questioned on their choices and made to justify them. It makes them feel victimised I guess 🤷‍♀️

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Mainlandeurope · 25/06/2019 20:15

I'm almost at the point where I want Boris and I want No Deal and then I want utter collapse and for all the leavers to then own it except of course they won't will they...Hmm

HollowTalk · 25/06/2019 20:15

Even Jacob Rees Mogg said it would take fifty years for everything to be alright!

Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 20:18

That's exactly how I feel Mainland. But I find it rather interesting that there would be attempts to blame anyone but themselves.

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YetAnotherThing · 25/06/2019 20:19

The most annoying thing is that when it all turns to shit it will still be the remainers fault or the EUs fault. But never their fucking fault for voting for such shite.

Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 20:20

But how would they come to that conclusion?

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Bearbehind · 25/06/2019 20:21

But I find it rather interesting that there would be attempts to blame anyone but themselves.

Do you honestly see anyone who refuses to acknowledge reality now, actually accepting they were wrong when it all goes to rat shit?

Peregrina · 25/06/2019 20:22

Despite many Leavers having explained their reasons repeatedly, in detail, over the last few years. And you wonder why Leavers don't want to talk to you.

I have to differ. It's nearly all been soundbites. When someone comes along and says Law such and such stops me doing.... then I will begin to believe that they have reasons and not blind faith. In three years I don't think we have seen any concrete examples.

When we do dig deep into various laws it's often found that the UK has added their own stricter interpretation, so the blame should really attach to Westminster.

The only definite examples we do see are about controlling immigration. We can then point out that successive UK Governments have failed to remove EU citizens who are not self-supporting after 3 months. Or we are told the EU is a white Christian club. There is nothing stopping Westminster now from letting in more citizens from the rest of the world including Muslims, Hindus, black or brown skinned. When told these things Leavers don't seem to have answers.

OK the disaster capitalist have the answer - they can make a fortune on currency movements, but I doubt if that includes many of us posting here.

We have seen examples of damage already caused by Brexit. I have lost a jolly good dentist because his wife worked for the EMA so they moved to Amsterdam. He was coming up to retirement, but I reckon I would have had five more years with him.

Oxford hospitals are now suffering acute staff shortages because EU staff are leaving.

My own DS has moved abroad, so I don't see as much of my grandson as I used to and would like to.

These to me are tangible examples of the damage that Brexit has already done.

Original poster
Closertotheheart · 25/06/2019 20:26

Not really Bear. I just don't get the why's and how's of hiw they could. I think I'm confused. I'm trying to be logical and think, don't argue with them, it gives them ammunition, just let them have their way then surely, SURELY, they cant blame any external factors.

But seeing how they already do, I know they will carry on in the same vain.

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