There really is no point trying to persuade Leavers....

[Closertotheheart]

As the title suggests really. There is no point trying to reason a debate with them as they are totally tunnel-visioned. Loads of them seem to think we should leave without a deal and go on to WTO rules.

They blame the Remainers in parliament for us having not left yet.

They blame Remainers in general for, well, seemingly anything and everything.

They blame the EU for us not having left yet.

They spout myth as if it was fact.

I despair. There really is no point trying to reason with them.

I'm at the point where I feel there is nothing left to say on the topic so let them have their 'victory' so at least they will have no one to blame.

I have a friend who's changed her mind from Leave to Remain, she's really angry about the lies she was told and feels her vote was stolen by cheats.

I have only ever come across one Leaver (on here and irl) who has given a shit about NI as well. A proper 'no deal' Brexiteer who has said that if theres no solution to the Irish border problem, as it seems there isn't, then Brexit must be abandoned, peace is more important.

I follow some Leave groups on Facebook and am banned from posting on Leave EU for posting facts and links to EU law.

Thank God there is one at least KennDodd.

If Labour stays on the Fence and the Tories/Brexit party get the same vote share or seat share as Remain parties then it is only likely to prolong the stalemate.

Absolutely.... I think Labour will have a miserable election as the same factors that cut their vote at the EU elections will be magnified at the GE as we face the stark reality on an impending no-deal.... but they’ll retain a core vote would probably be enough to prevent either a Remain or Leave win.

Of course, the tension may become too much - and it seems to be at boiling point now - and Labour may even split in the turbulent approach to the election when they can’t agree on a manifesto. It’s not something that’s yet been mentioned as a possibility, but I wouldn’t rule it out as the tensions are every bit as high as within the Tories.

Most Leavers actually seem to have voted Leave for 'sovereignty' to be returned.

I can theoretically understand this but I'd like one to be able to explain what it is that we're going to do with this sovereignty that we can't do today.

Not had a decent answer to this yet.

It seems to be about the principle, but I'm a pragmatist and can't get onboard with it.

We never lost sovereignty according to Theresa May, so it can't be returned, so we will do with it whatever we do now.

"You can make money on currency movements. Anyone can. You have to be resourceful and adaptable to survive."

No idea of the relevance but having lived in a soft currency country where you had to do this daily, I would say this is bollocks. A mug's game for the very wealthy.

"It is immoral in my opinion to import nhs staff into this country to save money and deprive their country of origin where they were trained their benefit."

This is how the NHS began. My Mum was a "foreign import" in the late 1950s. It has never had enough staff.

"It is also mathematically unsustainable."

See above.

"We should be preserving our farmland and not building houses on it. We will need this land in the forthcoming global extinction period."

And the EU is stopping us, how?

"The insect population in the uk has collapsed."

See above.

Most Leavers actually seem to have voted Leave for 'sovereignty' to be returned.

It’s because ‘sovereignty’ actually equates to ‘Britishness’

They want a return to the ‘good old days’ when there were no foreigners around (if such a time ever existed)

There is literally no other explanation for still wanting to peruse this at all costs when there are no other benefits.

And the FOM we’d achieve isn’t even a benefit and could have been done without leaving anyway.

Yanbu.
It became pointless 3 years ago.
Nothing’s changed, if anything, views have become more entrenched.
Why upset yourself trying to debate with people you’ll never agree with?

In the glorious 1950s, my mum and other economic migrants came to the UK to do essential work British people wouldn't do. At least I get an EU passport out of it.

My mum came over in the 1960s to signs saying "no dogs, no irish"

101 things the EU has done for us

www.facebook.com/standup2brexit/videos/407900333278934/

www.facebook.com/standup2brexit/videos/407900333278934/

Why wont my click links work? :(

OP ... don’t agree ... difficult though it is, the only option is to continue trying to persuade those that will listen that leaving is a grave error. Agree that many leavers are entrenched in their views but there will be some still open to argument and reason.

there will be some still open to argument and reason

Not after 3 years.

Those who still think it is worth pursing at all costs will never change their minds.

Even when it all goes wrong they will still think they were right but the problem was everyone else not making it work.

It's not worth the aggro trying to debate with them. Its really not, that's why I don't bother.

I say, sod it, let them have their no deal Brexit and their BoJo. Let the elite sell off the NHS to the USA.

Sometimes the adage is true, you don't know what you've got till it's gone

This was an eye-opener, and a jaw-dropper, even for someone who studied the topic:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00068sk/the-unwanted-the-secret-windrush-files

I knew about how trade union member support for Powell scared the shit out of Labour, but the constant coded language, references to the 'problem' in an oblique nose-tapping way, reminded me of nothing less than the Wansee Conference.

I'll take a look Mockers, I've yet to catch up on the Windrush programme

And yes some of my relatives have been affected by the Windrush scandal and the hostile environment, so it is a topic close to my heart.

Not after 3 years. Those who still think it is worth pursing at all costs will never change their minds.

This is defeatist!... If this feeling is typical we may as well just bend over and accept being shafted by the no-deal that the hardcore Brexiteers seem to delight in.

Whereas the opinions of a large number may be fixed, the population just doesn’t split down nearly into ardent, implacable Brexiteers and resolute, convinced Remainers.

There are:
a) many who currently support Leave who will be unnerved by the prospect of a no-deal,
b) those who support it because they think no-deal will mean we can simply move on from Brexit (catastrophically wrong though that may be) and
c) democrats who believe we should simply deliver the referendum result but then may reconsider if there was actually another plebiscite (even if they just focus on the need to respect the result currently).

I say, sod it, let them have their no deal Brexit and their BoJo. Let the elite sell off the NHS to the USA.

If this is typical of Remainers’ views then we really are on the losing side of history..... I hope to God it’s not though and there is some fight out there!

I'm not fighting my neighbours who are pretty much all Leavers, @Oakenbeach . I'm afraid it's all very well wanting to change people's minds when you live in a majority Remain area. I don't. My dd goes to school with their children.
I'm keeping my head down in real life.

Of course there are many who are beyond the reach of any persuasion but there are many who are not. It’s a fairly settled view now that most people (48% to 40% excl. don’t knows) believe leaving the EU was/is the wrong decision (see yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/01/where-we-stand-brexit). Everything is still to play for; we have not left, we can retain all of our existing advantages by revoking a50 even now. It is incumbent on all of us who want see the best for our country to continue to resist this folly and persuade those that are still reachable that Brexit is hugely damaging. Don’t be discouraged by the fervour of the zealots, they are lost. Lurkers are listening, learning and changing their minds.

If this is typical of Remainers’ views then we really are on the losing side of history..... I hope to God it’s not though and there is some fight out there!

There’s no point, opinions are too divided.

People who won’t look at the facts and reality of the situation and just reel off the same tired old soundbites at every opportunity are never going to change their mind.

Those who have changed their mind won’t get an opportunity to demonstrate that unless there’s a PV so they’ll just keep their head down.

My personal experience of the leavers I know is that they say they want to leave simply because that's what they voted for and they won. Any discussion about their reasons for leaving are shot down with 'we said we wanted out' and talk of democracy being thwarted by politicians. They want their Brexit prize and no reasoning with them is going to change that.