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Brexit

Westminstenders: Screaming at the TV.

917 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2019 16:16

Theresa May has asked for a short extension until 30th June, after Cabinet Brexiteers stopped her asking for a longer extension.

She has not stated the purpose of the extension beyond 'to pass her deal'. Which does not have a majority, because if it did May would be overturn the standing order Bercow invoked to block MVIII.

The EU have not reacted well to the request. Noises from France sound negative.

That doesn't mean we won't get one, but its not looking good. If we do it looks unlikely to go beyond May 23rd and EU elections.

We do not expect a response from the EU until Monday.

May has therefore in practice reinstated the possibility of no deal next Friday. Or at the end of any extension we do get.

She is due to give a speech on a podum at 6pm tonight.

Parliament has called an emergency debate on the extension to try and take control of debate. It, so far, looks like no more that the Brexit Secretary filibusting. Its going round and round in circles going no where.

Meanwhile rumours that Operation Yellowhammer will kick in on Monday are in the air. That's the first steps to martial law to manage no deal. This is very bad.

9 days to go.

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2019 00:29

Prettybird Brexit is defined by May's gatekeeping as PM.

All possible outcomes even now are defined by May's personal gatekeeping.

I just had a conversation with DH about May's speech. He said, the thing the Commons need to do tomorrow is get rid of her and collapse the government because her gatekeeping is the problem. I pointed out to him that this would cause no deal. He said no it wouldn't. I then pointed out that the exit date of 29th March was written into law and Parliament wouldn't be able to overturn that if it collapsed the government. The only person in an emergency who might have the power to alter that was, guess who? The PM.

He went silent.

All avenues and possibilities have always been overseen by May's micro management and control over the Brexit process.

Whilst Tory (particularly ERG) and Labour MPs can be blamed to a certain extent, the buck most definitely stops with May herself. And almost always as a consequence of her personal manner and untrustworthiness rather than because she has been between a rock and a hard place.

The idea that we shouldn't blame her is a fucking joke.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 21/03/2019 00:34

Re Nandy and pragmatism. I think Nandy is pragmatic in principle. The trouble is that May has removed the ability for Nandy AND her personal willingness to be pragmatic thus forcing her to retreat to her instincts and tribalism.

If Mays tone had be softer Nandy might have found it much more difficult to retreat and would have stuck to pragmatism.

When you are attacked of course you retreat to where you feel comfortable and don't leave yourself personally exposed.

May's inability to understand that is staggering

OP posts:
StripeyChina · 21/03/2019 01:06

Petition is at: 333,313 sigs.

We might need a new thread before bed Red

StripeyChina · 21/03/2019 01:07

(sorry if that sounded dictatorial a la May...)
just astonished how quickly it's moved tonight.
I'm turning in now, thank you to all for helping me keep up as ever.

prettybird · 21/03/2019 01:09

New thread has already been started. Sorry - can't link as I'm on the app, but Red posted the link at 23:54.

Frankiestein402 · 21/03/2019 03:17

Red's new thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3538780-Westminstenders-The-Last-Rites

hereweareyes · 21/03/2019 06:07

WTAF, I went to bed for a few hours and then the thread was full Grin

TheSandman · 21/03/2019 08:02

Over half a million and still going Gangbusters...

Littlespaces · 21/03/2019 09:11

Petition site seems to have been taken down. Not sure why.

BlueEyeshadow · 21/03/2019 09:41

Petition site had crashed. Then was back up again. Might be a good idea for people not to just sit there watching the numbers go up, so as to let other people sign it.

mrslaughan · 21/03/2019 15:27

Only one thing to say "she's a nasty piece of work"...... who would have thought that would be relevant about the PM of the UK

hayf · 21/03/2019 21:50

Petition is up to 1.75m now, quite incredible. I wonder if the EU council are watching?

HazardGhost · 21/03/2019 23:45

Over 2 million!

xebobfromUS · 22/03/2019 09:47

Well I probably wouldn't normally bother with this but seeing how " Operation Yellowhammer " looks like it may well go into effect next Monday here is a decent article I found from Greekprepper about Marital Law:

" What Is The Definition Of Martial Law?

What is the first thing that comes into mind when the phrase “Martial Law” is mentioned? Do the images of tanks rolling in the streets, accompanied by fully-armed soldiers cross your mind? Do you instinctively flinch in fear at the gloomy thought that war is being fought right at your doorstep?

Martial law is an act designed to control the society as war is being fought in actual or theoretical war zones. It can also be used as a measure for when either civil unrest, nationwide emergencies or when chaos ensues throughout a country.

The order may be given by the highest-ranking military officer as he or she takes over as military governor or as the government head (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_government). In any case, the power that belonged to judicial, legislative and executive bodies are now transferred over. Martial law is the last counter-measure against a force that the government authorities have failed to fully contain.

Aside from the unwavering presence of obvious military force patrolling the area, there are other liberties that are compromised. Curfews are set, as is the suspension of the habeas corpus, civil rights and civil law. Most concerning yet is the fact that civilians are now subject to military justice in military grounds. Those who defy or are suspected of defying the rules set may be captured and subjected to court-martial.

In layman’s terms, Martial Law is the final resort of a country that has found itself unable to deal with a potent threat. There are actually two types- the first is a localized level in which only certain parts of the nation are affected, and the dreaded national martial law, from which everyone living in that country is now affected.

What Could Trigger Martial Law?

The images that we evoke in our minds when we hear the phrase “Martial Law” is true. Potentially, it is the worst nightmare we as a society can face, and one that keeps preppers on their toes. One of the main reasons is that martial law can happen anytime a man-made or a natural disaster strikes.

Consider the following examples in history where martial law was used:

– Following a massive coup d’état i.e, Thailand during 2006 and 2014

– When threatened by overwhelming public protests i.e, China and the Tiananmen Square during 1989

– Suppressing of political opposition i.e, Poland during 1981

– A wide-scale disaster such as the Yellowstone eruption and other natural emergencies

– In cases of foreign invasion, civil war, or to stabilize insurrections i.e, Canada and the October Crisis during 1970

Martial law is an option when a nation is faced with devastating natural disasters. Most government bodies however, utilize a different legal construct to what defines a state of emergency . Don’t forget that it was also imposed during occupation cases where civil governments rule over a relatively unstable population. Examples include the WW2 reconstruction in Japan and Germany, and the civil reconstruction after the U.S. civil war.

What Will Life Be Like Under Martial Law?

Martial law is not a pretty picture to behold. Don’t hold any illusions, because life will definitely become tougher after it becomes fully implemented.

Remember that almost everything that we are enjoying now will be suspended. Constitutional liberties and freedoms will be gone. Civilians such as you and I will no longer have basic civil rights. All that power will be transferred over to the government or to a single, tyrannical politician to wield the military force and to use it as they see fit.

Imagine if there was a scenario where martial law was declared in the U.S. The usual “State of Emergency” will be declared, and with it the following:

– Suspension of the Constitution, more notably the First and the Second Amendment.

– Suspension of the Habeas Corpus, which means anyone can go to prison without a trial and due process.

– Mandatory identification and restrictive curfews.

– Automatic seizures and invasive searches without needing a warrant; confiscation of firearms.

– Quarantine zones, road closures and strict travel restrictions.

In layman’s terms, you’ll see groups of military soldiers and ordinances patrolling the streets in plain view. Tanks, military choppers, high-powered rifles and other military drones will not be things that you can see in movies anymore. Basic necessities such as water and food will be confiscated, and hoarding them will become illegal. In order to get food and water, you’ll have to stand in line with the rest of the population.

Even household resources such as electricity, bath water and TV networks will be rationed and observed closely. You may be searched anytime for any reason; you may be asked to step out of your vehicle anytime. Freedom of speech and the free press will be absent as long as martial law is imposed.

It doesn’t stop there. As basic human civil rights are suspended, you can get arrested anytime for any reason, and you can’t do anything about it. You won’t have a fair trial and due process is thrown out the window. You will be at the mercy of a military court. What’s worse is that you can get executed by the police or any other military force for speaking against the government or for defending your family or friends.

When Has Martial Law Been Enacted Throughout History?

National martial law in the United States was only declared once, and that was in the great Civil War. Keep in mind that the national level requires the declaration of the President or the Congress. Other than that, history has shown that martial law has been limited to states.

Use of military force was enforced in instances such as the Whiskey Rebellion and during the Civil War, but there wasn’t any declaration of martial law. Here are some more instances where martial law was enacted throughout history:

Freedom Riders

Alabama governor Patterson declared martial law on May of 1961 in order to combat the agitators coming in the state specifically to violate Alabama’s laws and customs.

Hawaii Territory

Hawaii was held in December 7 1941 under martial law during WW2 and was not lifted until October 24 1944. Hawaii’s federal judges later condemned the rule stating that a military dictatorship was set up not in the island’s best interests, but to those of the army.

San Francisco 1934

Frank Merriam, governor of California during 1934 declared martial law and cited “unlawful tumult and riots” when dock workers held a strike. The National Guard was summoned to open up the docks and were able to successfully control it, averting the crisis. Furthermore, the guardsmen were given the power to make arrests or detain the employees for later court trials.

Tulsa Race Riot

The Oklahoma National Guard decreed martial law in 1921 in response to KKK members conspiring to eradicate Black Wall Street. The plan was to wipe out the business center of African Americans by jealous whites. Those who tried to flee were shot or lynched by the KKK.

Coal Wars in West Virginia

Martial law was declared for the West Virginia state when coal wars erupted in the years 1920 to 1921. Federal troops were sent by Governor Cornwell’s orders to rally up the miners who rallied. It was one of the few martial laws that was used for ostensible reasons, as the army officers used their power to jail union members. Martial law dictatorship by Governor Cornwell and the army ended with Sid Hatfield’s trial.

Colorado Coalfield War

Martial law was imposed on the climax of the Colorado Coalfield War in 1914. The decades-long conflict finally bubbled over and it was the town of Ludlow, Colorado that took the hit. As such, the Colorado National Guard was summoned to calm the protests. The shifting of National Guard opinions led to clashes and resulted in the Ludlow Massacre. American President Wilson ended the violence by sending in the federal troops.

1906 San Francisco Earthquake

Presidio troops were called to action after the great earthquake in 1906. Martial law was declared and the guards were stationed all throughout San Francisco. Dynamite was utilized to destroy buildings in the path of fire to prevent it from spreading further.

1892 Coeur d’Alene

Mine workers shot at opposing miners and destroyed a mill in the 1892 Coeur d’Alene incident in Idaho. The governor promptly called for martial law, summoned the guardsmen and requested for federal troops as well. The result was the arrest of over 600 people, which ended with the court martial of more than 20 ringleaders.

The Chicago Fire

Roswell Mason, then mayor of Chicago, declared martial law in 1871 after the Great Chicago Fire. He then ordered General Philip Sheridan to take over and put the city under control on October 9 1871. When the great fire was put out, the state of martial law was lifted in just a few days.

Ex parte Milligan

President Abraham Lincoln imposed martial law authorized by the congress on September 15 1863. The act effectively suspended habeas corpus throughout the whole of United States, declaring the suspension on spies, aiders, prisoners of war and enemy abettors. It was later challenged by the Ex parte Milligan and won as the Supreme Court ruled the martial law as unconstitutional.

The War of 1812

General Andrew Jackson declared the state of emergency in New Orleans, Lousiana during the War of 1812. He then successfully fought off the invading British, but kept the martial law active, saying he didn’t receive the official word of peace.

The American Revolution

Parliament effectively passed the Government Act of Massachusetts after the Boston Tea Party, which suppressed any and all assemblies and town meetings. It also imposed an appointed government, which is very similar to the current martial law we have today.

What Is The Chance Of Martial Law In 2016 Under President Obama?

Martial law does have its merits, if only for a few reasons. It can be the adequate course of action when everything we know goes out the window. The only deciding factor in determining a good or bad martial law is what the government does with all that power.

It’s true that President Barack Obama is under the public scrutiny for plenty of scandals and controversies, but it all will be dwarfed when he does declare martial law. There are statements that read Barack Obama declaring the US will be better off with martial law in place; some have even speculated that Obama has put the necessary bills through the wringer.

The fears that we face are unfounded. President Barack Obama has not declared his intent to put the US under martial law. He did however, put into place bills that favor martial law. There’s an order known as the National Resources Defense Preparedness, where the government can take over a particular resource at any given moment during a state of emergency. This bill also mentions that martial law could be declared anytime under the President’s direct orders.

What You Should Do To Prepare For Martial Law

Preppers will be hard-pressed to prepare for such a scenario, but it’s always better to be prepared than to be caught off-guard. The best kind of defense for this type of doomsday scenario is to actively stop it from happening. Otherwise, you can start preparing for your defense and the defense of the people you love.

Let’s start with the basics of prepping. It is imperative to start stocking up on essential medicine, clean drinkable water, canned foods, survival gear and firearms. It’s a big plus if you already know some survival skills; take the time and the available courses to learn the most important ones.

Pack these things into a location that you can reach easily. The less important ones can be stashed away in a more secure location. Throw the current convention out the window and don’t stock up on electronics such as cell phones or laptop computers. It could lead you to more trouble by giving your position away, making noise or by burdening your load. They will be dead weight if an EMP attack happens, or once the batteries die out.

If you wish to survive a martial law, here’s what you need to do:
Food. Store food that can last a long time for you, your family or friends. The more you can stock, the better.
Water. Store potable drinking water, or buy equipment that cleans water you can collect from rainfall.
Shelter. You’ll need a safe location to stay in. A bug out location, reinforced homes or even a portable tent will be useful if you ever need to get to the wilderness.
Medicine. Stock up on the most useful medicines first. Don’t forget to stock on medical drugs and equipment that your family might need.
Guns, Ammo and Survival Skills. You will need to learn how to make fire from nothing, or be able to build a shelter out of your surroundings.
Get Fit. You’ll need all of your physical strength and capability in order to prepare fully for any impending martial law.
Drills. Practice and simulate events that could lead to martial law. Teach your friends or family members how to evacuate quickly, bug out, or hide in an underground shelter.
How To Get Through Martial Law

Step 1. Trust No One

Protect yourself by being invulnerable to external forces. Martial law can bring out the worst in people. They will form groups or mobs to try and control the people on their own, or impersonate law enforcement for their own benefits. They could even attempt to take over a community and establish their own laws.

Step 2. Become One With Everybody Else

You’ll need to rid yourself of individuality in a temporary manner and become just like everyone else. The bottom line is, don’t stand out like a sore thumb in all aspects. Be mindful of everything you say to the public. It would probably better not to say anything at all. Avoid negative opinions and go on with daily life as if nothing is happening. Just hope that it will end one day, sooner rather than later. While this might go against your beliefs, at least you won’t be singled out or given undesirable treatment by the controlling forces in the area.

Step 3. Fight Or Flight

Everyone will be faced at one point to either fight for what they believe in, or to do everything they can to survive this cataclysmic event. You can either bug out, go in hiding, wait for all that dust to settle or fight for your liberties. It depends on whether you want to survive martial law or whether you wish to die for your liberty. ".

xebobfromUS · 22/03/2019 10:15

Okay I know this is really lengthy but here is the continuation:

" Step 4. Keep Your Mouth Shut

It cannot be stressed enough that you should keep mum about what’s happening in your country. Don’t tell absolutely anyone things that can harm you or your family. You can do this effectively by putting on a hood and keeping a low profile. Don’t needlessly expose your family, friends, relatives and your loved ones. Think carefully on what you will say before you even utter one word.

Step 5. Avoid Government Control and Monitoring

There will be cameras and surveillance. There will be armed patrols and snitches waiting to prey on someone. It would be smart if you can locate where the cameras are, then draw up a plan that exposes you to the least number of surveillance systems.

Know who is patrolling your area; keep track of their path, the times they patrol and what kind of routine they use. Find any shortcuts that could be useful, such as tunnels, railroad tracks, forest paths and side streets. You’ll need the least amount of interaction with the government troops to lessen the chances of them picking on you.

4 COMMENTS
mike September 13, 2016 at 8:48 am
i live in thailand and we are living under martial law and have been for over 2 years. the general in charge has made new laws giving himself power for the next 20 years. the country is now controlled by the rich minority. there have been bombings possibly done by the army to justify their power grab. it is going to get worse and after 10 years i am leaving before it gets really bad. i am lucky i can leave

Reply
Charles April 6, 2017 at 2:12 am
Yes Mike I am living in Thailand and have been for the last 12 years. I remember when Thaskin was ousted as PM, but that was when he was in New York at the UN. Then when the Red shirts burned part of Bangkok and the Yellow shirts took over the Airport in Bangkok. It seems every 2 – 4 years there is a Coup followed by Martial Law and a New Constitution. I hope that you can leave and that the US doesn’t go the way that Thailand has, though the Military is what always takes over when they don’t like what the elected Government is doing. Very Sad

Reply
Mic Roland September 13, 2016 at 11:48 am
Seems like a crucial aspect of the Martial Law situation is WHY it was declared. If it was, from the historical examples cited, due to a dock workers strike, or race riots, or some natural disaster, then the ‘martial’ forces would not be looking for you. They would be trying to maintain peace and order. Even if they’re fairly draconian in how they go about imposing that peace and order — that would be their goal. The key to ‘surviving’ that situation is to avoid any contact with the martial powers. That’s where bug-in preps would shine. Anything that keeps you from having to go out (and encounter the power) would help you survive.

If, however, the Martial Law situation was one in which “sedition” is feared, the powers would be going house to house to ferret out the cancer. They come looking for YOU. In that case, bugging in isn’t enough. If a “food emergency” caused the declaration of Martial Law, troops could go searching door to door, looking for “illegal hoarders”. Since it’s martial law, the presiding despot gets to define what hoarding is, not you. They find your garage full of MREs and brand you a criminal. Your fate is up to their whim. Could be they’re searching for suddenly-illegal guns, or radio equipment, or cement mixers. It doesn’t matter. The despot made it illegal, so if you have (whatever it is), you’re the criminal with zero rights.

In the above scenario, it seems like your only hope is to continue to fly under their radar. Like the article said, don’t attract attention. Don’t mouth off. If everyone else is in bread lines, you should be too. If MREs are declared illegal, then you need to dispose of, or hide your contraband — keeping in mind that if discovered, your hidden MREs make you the double-criminal. (again, with no rights)

Deciding to fight to the death, going down a blaze of glory and hot brass — is not surviving. ".

Now for some criticisms, I think it's a terrible idea to have survival gear and firearms in your flat / house or anything associated with that ,even discarded packaging in the trash or a closet. That's a dead give away that you are probably hiding food stashes somewhere.

There may or may not be random checks carried out, most likely the police and military will be overwhelmed with protecting food stores and food banks and trying to maintain law and order in general plus other major issues to be bothered with what is in your kitchen.

The same deal goes for firearms, medical supplies in your bathroom, etc.

The real issue with a no-deal Brexit will be transport and bureaucratic issues involving trade as opposed to actual physical destruction which would occur during a time of war or a natural disaster.

bellinisurge · 22/03/2019 10:48

I've lived through martial law in another country. Keep your head down is what you need to know.

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