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Coming Clean by Liz Fraser

1000 replies

RhinoRhino · 25/06/2023 12:13

A couple of threads that I had posted on relating to the Memoir ‘Coming Clean’ by Liz Fraser have been deleted from the MN site, apparently due to non-compliance of the MN guidelines from the posters. MN are obviously well within their rights to delete threads if they demonstrably fail to comply with their guidelines, nevertheless I feel strongly that MN posters are given a platform to critique this book, and also any other public ventures by this author. It would be neither fair nor right that posters are completely silenced in this particular matter.

As such, and in line with Mumsnet not seeing “anything wrong with honest feedback” I would like to make the comment that Coming Clean as a Memoir falls short due to the shaky and not entirely truthful narrative. There are certain facts contained within this memoir that are easily disprovable (for example, relating to the marital status of both author and her partner when they started their ill-fated affair), which leaves a massive question mark over the rest of the book. Is it entirely reasonable to make money from something that is promoted as truthful when it is, in fact, not entirely true?

I think there are people whose lives have been negatively impacted by the book and its subject matter, and I hope that MN will agree that these people should have a voice, as should anybody who wants to comment on a published piece of work.

As long as posters align their comments with the MN guidelines, this is a topic that people may wish to keep discussing, and also keep in the public domain. And if MN wants to provide a set of rules particular to this thread – certainly if they are arbitrary and differ from the general guidelines - I am sure it would be very helpful.

Mumsnet, please help us to help each other by keeping in the public domain something that us silenced mums feel should be out there.

OP posts:
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Burgundybrin · 27/06/2023 00:06

I know of 9 threads

RhinoRhino · 27/06/2023 07:14

Well, I have faith in Mumsnet!😆

There are two elements to this subject - firstly, open debate and critiquing of narratives that have been put into the public domain and are absolutely 100% therefore open to debate and comment. Anything else would be undemocratic and unreasonable. I for one will happily keep on keeping on for this to remain in the public domain.

Secondly, the rather more creative contributions by some very funny people, which I think we can admit do not belong on this forum, along with genuine personal stories and conjecture which should probably be kept to a more exclusive audience. I'm sure there are other options than Mumnsnet, as it would be a shame to waste such talent. Blogs? Substack? Under the counter magazine?

Where there's a will there's a way!

OP posts:
RhinoRhino · 27/06/2023 07:15

Maybe we could get an unpaid intern to sort it out? A Gen Z-er would certainly have the answer ......

OP posts:
Beanchops · 27/06/2023 07:48

I agree with @RhinoRhino … I know that was hard for her to write as that also means sacrificing her own sausage based obsession.🥲 Now I’ll have to go and set up Trollfest.com to organise the meet up … we all have our crosses to bear.

Worth it just to keep a balance of what information mums can get online about this latest business….especially if there is a ( remote) chance women are going to submitting deeply personal and traumatic life stories ( and possibly money) to her .

I really can’t see how MN can remove factual challenges to the narrative this business woman, with a public profile, is using to gain work, media exposure and most importantly money.

Remember every “gig” ( ie women’s hour)she got for promoting a book that turned out not to be as claimed, was taking away the opportunity for another woman/mum to tell her truthful story.

HouseofHolbein · 27/06/2023 07:58

Would love an invitation code for tattle if anyone has one going spare...

Raffington55 · 27/06/2023 08:25

Tortiemiaw · 26/06/2023 21:46

Very pleased to find you. I haven't read the book we are currently discussing but I am interested to learn more about how she has been advised to have at least 26 sessions of EMDR, when most qualified psychotherapists believe that between 6 and 12 weeks, maybe twice weekly is enough. I have CPTSD, and it's been suggested that 4 to 6 would probably help with my issues. Perhaps areas vary?
It's a well known intervention for CPTSD so it's also a little confusing that she pronounced it as a brand new treatment.

I think it's more a case of 'recollections may vary' as the Queen put it. I very much doubt 26 was the number suggested.

Tortiemiaw · 27/06/2023 08:29

The only people or organisations I ever tell my story to are hugely trusted friends, or professionals!
I would imagine she won't appreciate that some women have actually been through worse.

Larkspurblue · 27/06/2023 08:42

RhinoRhino · 27/06/2023 07:14

Well, I have faith in Mumsnet!😆

There are two elements to this subject - firstly, open debate and critiquing of narratives that have been put into the public domain and are absolutely 100% therefore open to debate and comment. Anything else would be undemocratic and unreasonable. I for one will happily keep on keeping on for this to remain in the public domain.

Secondly, the rather more creative contributions by some very funny people, which I think we can admit do not belong on this forum, along with genuine personal stories and conjecture which should probably be kept to a more exclusive audience. I'm sure there are other options than Mumnsnet, as it would be a shame to waste such talent. Blogs? Substack? Under the counter magazine?

Where there's a will there's a way!

Agreed. Sticking with the first element you outline above, and an example of the LF modus operandi, I just had another look at the reviews of "Coming Clean" on Amazon. I was struck by how many reviewers used the word "honest" in the top line of their review.

I have often wondered how a person who doesn't know any of the protagonists and wasn't present when the events being described happened can nevertheless assert that the narrative is "true". It wouldn't stand up under cross-examination for sure.

I think it's another ploy employed by our heroine - if you assert something often enough and loud enough it becomes "true". It was the same with the "best-selling book" narrative I spoke about upthread.

And I totally agree with @Beanchops that Woman's Hour interview was a farce. In fact I wrote to them to inform them of the disparity between what was said and "the truth". I received no acknowledgement or reply. And I often wonder how Mike's wife must have felt reading all the outpouring of sympathy for this "true" book and knowing what she knows about the "inaccuracies" it contains. I don't think the "recollections may differ" excuse can be given here since the entire narrative is founded on it.

GreekDogRescue · 27/06/2023 08:45

I’d love an invitation code too - there isn’t long before this one gets silenced.
Mumsnet might find there is an exodus to Tattle Life which isn’t seeking to suppress ‘women’s voices’.
meanwhile new reviews appear on Amazon and GoodReads which tell the true story.
I just feel sorry for these poor interns. Do they know what they are letting themselves in for.

GreekDogRescue · 27/06/2023 10:17

Reddit would be a good place to have a group. It’s anonymous and easy to edit and delete comments.
it would be best to have a fairly obvious title so people can find it.
I have an account there and suggest the title should be the same as this one (which will be taken down any moment).
I’m not sure how to set up a group there but will have a go unless anyone else would like to try

Burgundybrin · 27/06/2023 10:18

There's talk of setting up a Reddit chat. PM me if you'd like to be notified.

Chrysanthemum5 · 27/06/2023 10:30

Reading this reminded me that I had read an article by Liz in the Times a couple of years ago. At the time the article read like she wanted praise for being in an awful situation and I just couldn't see past how awful this must have been for a child caught up in this dysfunctional relationship.

GreekDogRescue · 27/06/2023 10:36

Burgundybrin · 27/06/2023 10:18

There's talk of setting up a Reddit chat. PM me if you'd like to be notified.

That was me however I’ve just tried and it won’t let me. No idea why as I’ve had an account for years.
Anyone else with an account? It’s easy to
make an account but you need to have been posting for a few weeks before you set up a sub

GreekDogRescue · 27/06/2023 10:47

OK. I’ve figured it out.
Look up LizFraserLegend on Reddit.
Had to move quickly before this gets shut down

fibag29 · 27/06/2023 11:02

Reddit move is a good idea. I'm mainly on TL, but long-term MN user as well.
Had to use daughter's reddit account, so previous posts are a bit weird!
HG is a very complex character (trying to be polite) the triumphalism of recent Instagram posts is nauseating

Beanchops · 27/06/2023 11:33

I’ll look for Reddit and spread the word… I think this all may backfire a bit as I think the vast majority of the posts on here have been pretty restraint as we were aware of possible deletion!

im up for leaping on the Reddit /TL lifeboats. 🤣this is hilariously bad really…if we were all lying, each thread would have been removed for that one reason immediately.

On other platforms I think people will be more harsh- you reap what you you sow 🤷‍♀️

Burgundybrin · 27/06/2023 16:03

There is now a Reddit thread, and Tattle members are being encouraged to send out invite links to the regulars on these threads.

Tortiemiaw · 27/06/2023 16:06

I tried to get a tattle code but I'm not regular enough!

Intriguedbythis · 27/06/2023 16:33

You’re absolutely right. The goading in the deletion really will backfire as we reconvene in less ‘SILENCED’ forums. Should any cleaning ladies be able to invite us to Tattle would be amazing, have had a read there and the tattle crew are elite. Love their investigative work . Will also pop to Reddit

cannot get over the JM similarities from what I have now read. LF and JM should meet up

HouseofHolbein · 27/06/2023 17:54

I'd love a tattle invite please!

Burgundybrin · 27/06/2023 18:02

I have listed all your usernames there and asked for invites.

areyouhavinglaugh · 27/06/2023 18:08

I've read her stuff years ago! But why all the hate I don't understand what's she's done wrong?

Don't flame me I'm curious.. have read bikini thread and the subscriber one too.

areyouhavinglaugh · 27/06/2023 18:09

GreekDogRescue · 27/06/2023 10:47

OK. I’ve figured it out.
Look up LizFraserLegend on Reddit.
Had to move quickly before this gets shut down

I'm off to read it hold on!

Larkspurblue · 27/06/2023 18:30

Burgundybrin · 27/06/2023 00:06

I know of 9 threads

Are you aware of another on MN that hasn't been taken down? I thought this was the only one

Raffington55 · 27/06/2023 19:06

Did you manage to get in BB based on that msg I sent ? I thought it wd be a miracle ? X

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