Coming Clean by Liz Fraser

[RhinoRhino]

A couple of threads that I had posted on relating to the Memoir ‘Coming Clean’ by Liz Fraser have been deleted from the MN site, apparently due to non-compliance of the MN guidelines from the posters. MN are obviously well within their rights to delete threads if they demonstrably fail to comply with their guidelines, nevertheless I feel strongly that MN posters are given a platform to critique this book, and also any other public ventures by this author. It would be neither fair nor right that posters are completely silenced in this particular matter.

As such, and in line with Mumsnet not seeing “anything wrong with honest feedback” I would like to make the comment that Coming Clean as a Memoir falls short due to the shaky and not entirely truthful narrative. There are certain facts contained within this memoir that are easily disprovable (for example, relating to the marital status of both author and her partner when they started their ill-fated affair), which leaves a massive question mark over the rest of the book. Is it entirely reasonable to make money from something that is promoted as truthful when it is, in fact, not entirely true?

I think there are people whose lives have been negatively impacted by the book and its subject matter, and I hope that MN will agree that these people should have a voice, as should anybody who wants to comment on a published piece of work.

As long as posters align their comments with the MN guidelines, this is a topic that people may wish to keep discussing, and also keep in the public domain. And if MN wants to provide a set of rules particular to this thread – certainly if they are arbitrary and differ from the general guidelines - I am sure it would be very helpful.

Mumsnet, please help us to help each other by keeping in the public domain something that us silenced mums feel should be out there.

Sorry, but I don't really get it either. I looked at her Instagram and, while some of her pictures are a bit eyebrow-raising in terms of her nudity (all kudos to her for her fitness levels in her late forties!), there is also a lot of travel-lifestyle picture content that seems fairly harmless. Nothing else comes up when I search her online, apart from an article about her alcoholic partner.

Where is the proof of some of the other accusations?

Hello there 👋

This is the 9th (?) thread that has been operating about Liz Fraser and, as far as I'm aware, the only one that still exists. Mumsnet have taken down all the others using various justifications. Two were removed because they referred to a court case which is subject to a privacy ruling; anyone breaching the ruling is breaking the law. I totally get why those threads were taken down. The rest were removed for reasons that are more open to interpretation e.g. "not in the spirit of Mumsnet" or "not supportive of families" or (most bafflingly) taken down "so that MN can have a look at them" and never seeing the light of day again.

The first thread was started to ask pertinent questions about Liz's book "Coming Clean" which contained a number of factual inaccuracies. Other contributors highlighted the many ways in which her behaviour leaves a lot to be desired. Thus a community was formed of women who came together to call her out and correct her false narratives.

It's a shame those threads were removed because some of them were very funny and they clearly touched a nerve.

Hope this helps you @Coffeeandcards

@BadSkiingMum

I will try to contextualise for you.

The recent rant she had about:

"Extensive and orchestrated cyber stalking, libel, defamation, multiple contempts of court, threats to my safety and that of members of my family ..." etc (it's all in the public domain).

The Cleaning Ladies on here are inviting her to refute the following statements if they are not true:

1. That she had extra marital affairs, 3 reported on MN, whilst positioning herself as a "parenting expert";
2. That one of the affairs was the one described in the book "Coming Clean" where we are led to believe that she and her partner had left their respective relationships. The reality was that they were both still married, he very recently. She knew he was married because she and her husband and children attended the wedding. She also knew he was an alcoholic, something else she denied in the book;
3. She effectively abandoned her 3 oldest children when they were teens/pre-teens to move abroad with her new partner and new baby. The children were successfully parented by their father for the remainder of their school years. She has claimed credit for the fact that they are well-rounded young people and never once admitted the trauma she must have caused them with her public appalling behaviour and abandonment of them. At the same time she has claimed the credit for how they turned out;
4. She has set up various enterprises asking for contributions from the public. In 2016 she established "Headcase" a crowd-funded mental health platform, it is unclear where the money raised went. She currently has a "fund me" button on her Substack "Flying Solo" account. She recently set up "Edgeway Press" with another "fund me" button. She recently said that she donated 10% of the money raised by Edgeway Press to a local DV charity but no details of how much (which would give away how much EP has made from the public). She uses her ambassadorship of a national DA/DV charity to legitimise asking for contributions to "content" purporting to assist DV survivors in their recovery. No such content has been forthcoming. I should add here that she has accused people (MORONS apparently) of publishing her home address. This is absolutely untrue, her publishing company is named after the street where she and her child live and it is registered at Companies House under her address.

So I invite Ms Fraser to publicly refute any/all of the above and set the record straight with her thousands of followers.

Ps I'm also struggling to see how anyone can "cyber stalk" when her accounts are open for anyone to read

Feel free to share all of this. It's an open conversation. Liz has been invited multiple times to respond to these discussions. This group don't rely on claims but the personal experiences of people who know Liz directly or indirectly or comment on the content of her books or posts. For instance, Liz may claim to attend a domestic violence conference and share a photo with a homemade badge, only to later forget and post other photos on the same day. She underestimates who follow her, including someone who actually attended the event and can prove it with their badge.

Unfortunately, trolls have a disregard for the truth. However, the women in this group have consistently focused on the truth.

Liz meanwhile is a woman who has repeatedly lied to her own family so lying to strangers online seems to come naturally to her.

To make it easy for Liz to show people what the “trolls” are saying, here’s a link: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/creative_writing/4835118-coming-clean-by-liz-fraser?reply=127297592

Even in her reporting of this she’s creating something that’s not the truth.

This, plus she can direct people to the “trolling” also all in public domain. She’s shared previously when people have DMed nasty messages so why doesn’t she share these? If these are lies, she’s every right to stand up and say these are lies.

Thanks for setting it out - naturally I don't agree with or approve of that personal conduct, however I'm still struggling to see how the truth of that is known or proven.

Took a quick look at the Substack and could only see the usual subscribe button?

The fundraising stuff doesn't look great, but individual donors who are unhappy should probably complain via the funding platform or possibly the Fundraising Regulator. However I suspect an element of 'donor beware' is in the small print of funding platforms. If donors feel that they have actually been defrauded, then there are other routes to pursue and they should definitely do that.

On the face of it, it appears that she is creative, erratic, attractive, unconventional, an over-sharer and enjoys a certain lifestyle. I can see that she would rub many up the wrong way - I probably wouldn't 'gel' with her myself. But, until any fraud is proven, I am still not getting the opprobrium.

I have now read the Amazon samples of her four published books. She is a good writer, even if they aren't my cup of tea. There are question marks about her conduct but I also think some people out there might envy that talent.

@BadSkiingMum It’s great that you think Liz Fraser is a good writer. A subjective opinion, of course. I wouldn’t disagree. She’s certainly not a terrible writer in my opinion. Some of the hyperbole is quite entertaining, some of it quite annoying. Good writing is in the eye of the reader.

What we have been discussing on here is not subjective reviews of writing styles, but objective facts of a sketchy ‘memoir’, and other published/broadcast narratives of dubious veracity. Our focus has more been on the discrepancies and inaccuracies in a ‘memoir’ that was promoted as being a true story, but really isn’t completely true. Discrepancies which have had lasting real life impact on real people, who didn’t deserve to be collateral damage in another person’s drama.

Maybe you think that is just artistic license, and that is your prerogative. Happy to have your point of view on an author making money from other people’s misery and distress without their express consent. That’s what we’re here for. Debate. Putting forward a cogent argument.

Please ….. the stage is all yours.

sadly @BadSkiingMum it is nothing to do with jealousy it has always been about glaring holes in Liz’s narrative, that she has used to make money in a variety of ways ( that’s everyone’s main issue) and her online behaviour . This new way to make money- donations to private websites and crowdfunding is all a bit new , so I think everyone is still figuring out the rules a bit , but I’m not sure it’s ok to let all behaviour go unchecked?!? Tbh I don’t have the answers, but I feel people shouldn’t be misled. 🤷‍♀️

it’s also been a lot about women who have experienced DA supporting each other … sadly all gone too. We told our stories on here too- we are not career trolls.

A variety of people has commented on the deleted threads and very occasionally on her twitter : parents from her children school; colleague of her ex husband; friends of Mike’s ex wife; ex business associate of Liz; various people in Cambridge who have witnessed her behaviour in public - I doubt they are all aspiring writers jealous of Liz’s oeuvre. Also note none of them have called Liz a c@nt , vile troll, sad, brainless moron or sick f@ck . No one has threatened her or her family- I’m absolutely shocked she would say that.

I hope other cleaners have the time to fill in the gaps . I don’t have time . Honestly there is so much , yes there definitely is some proof that Liz’s account of the start of her relationship with Mike is not searingly honest . Some tweets that clash with her timeline. Why don’t you ask Liz to prove it’s not true and that they were both divorced/ separated when they got together as she says inThe Shift podcast?

if you can be bothered scroll back through her twitter read tweets about her money / income problems knowing what you know about her two homes( passive income) and trips abroad(she says for work, but she hasn’t been able to work , but maybe she had advances, which would then mean she has had some income- she claimed at one point substack her only income due to not being able to work- see it just doesn’t make sense) …
the optics are not great!

I think most of the interactions with people she blocks are deleted. They are quite telling- she is no meek victim being harassed by trolls on her SM. Below is a link to a previous episode..

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2500485-Use-of-child-death-as-an-analogy-for-sense-of-loss-should-be-punishable-by-wearing-a-dimwit-hat-for-ever-more

I wasn’t going to comment on here, but I’m having a good quick lie down after a busy day ! 👋 back to lurking on here now!

Thank you @beanchops for putting that forward. And re my previous post, in fact I think it might help us all if @BadSkiingMum was prepared to put forward a cogent defence of Liz with regard to the inaccuracies and the silencing of dissenters. It could be the first time we hear anything resembling any sense. And it would be so much more helpful than being called trolls and having unhinged accusations hurled at us from the twittersphere. So, @BadSkiingMum I for one would genuinely love to read the calmly presented facts of the other side of the argument. It would do us all good to know exactly where we are going wrong on this. Because thus far nobody has managed to effectively communicate that to us. Silencing and profanity do not a good argument make!

@BadSkiingMum I will agree with you that LF is a good writer - I was gripped by her memoir and felt very sorry for her.
however it soon became clear that recollections varied.
I also think she is very attractive and great at PR.

What upsets me is that she has monetarised her story - which isn’t even honest or accurate- in order to hoodwink generous and less well off people into donating money for her projects - projects that wither in the vine once she gets bored of them. Look up Headcase.

And the whole super mum shtick when she has been having affairs and destroying other families.

I have dropped more info which cannot be revealed here on Reddit under LizFraser Legend. What I would say is don’t market yourself as a parenting expert while having affairs and ruining other women’s lives. Not fair.

A new tweet about online 'abuse' making Ms Fraser retreat from work etc for a few weeks. I know we all have our own stories, and don't want to de-rail again, but just to point out that during the real, threatening, relentless abuse I and my family suffered for YEARS, (and during which time both my mother and sister endured long struggles with cancer, from which they both died) I went out to work, looked after 3 children, and tried to keep my marriage together. I wouldn't recommend suffering such stress over such a prolonged period, but honestly I bet all of us Cleaners have survived much worse than on-line questions about the truthfulness of an unreliable 'memoir'. Sometimes we just have to man up and get on with it!

Ladies, ladies, please put down your mops briefly and lend me an ear. So that another cherished thread be not deleted can I remind you all: mention of LF's connection to he who shall not be named is nothing to do with which platform the mention is made on. Tattle Life, Reddit or Mumsnet are not above UK Law. It doesn't matter how much fun it is for us to snigger at Head Girls's association with the red faced one, any direct and explicit link between the two is AGAINST THE LAW. The platforms all loftily dismiss any culpability becuase they are merely platforms for other people to post on - which means the crime is passed directly to the poster. Anyone breaching this court order is liable to arrest and possible imprisonment. Sorry to be such a killjoy. But I am the keeper of the Cambridge facts!

@hazydaisy82 Absolutely. Thank you for putting that out there. It is very important that we all understand the legal implications. Just don't go there. There is no need, and it could bring a whole heap of trouble to ignore @hazydaisy82 's warning.

I really do not have any skin in this game. The only two times that Liz Fraser has entered my consciousness are: i) many years ago when the Yummy Mummy Survival Guide was first published I remember it being mentioned in the press; ii) today, finding this thread on 'Active Conversations' and wanting to take a closer look.

I stand by saying that she is a good writer. Her Instagram posts are probably not her best work but the samples of her books on Amazon show that she can write fluently and engage the audience in each of those genres. I also think there are lots of people who would love to be the published author of four books - no one can deny that is an achievement in itself.

A poster upthread oh-so-charmingly suggested that I must be 'extremely thick or impressionable' but I am neither of those things. I have a postgraduate degree and a professional working life. I was also a freelance writer for a period of time (magazines and trade journals) and have other publications to my name, so feel that I have some basis upon which to give a view that she is a good writer. I am not going to dignify that post with any further response.

It is interesting to read what @Beanchops has written about people who actually know Liz Fraser coming onto other threads. That gives a bit more credibility to the other narrative. But do we actually know who those people really are? How is it that this other narrative hasn't found its way into the press, where it would need to be fact-checked and verified before publication?

I also agree that this whole new world of monetised content and 'telling your truth' is an environment in which the rules/infrastructure are being constructed as the train is speeding along the tracks. Many, many famous people have made pretty serious errors of judgment and been exposed, despite teams of advisors.

I am trying to present a balanced view. I don't feel there is any particular benefit now in anyone talking about Liz Fraser's alleged adultery - the law would regard it as a personal matter, repellent though the thought of it may be. If anyone actually feels strongly enough to leave the pages of MN (or TL) and take real-life action then the financial angle is the only credible route. I don't think Liz Fraser is the next Anna Delvey but do agree that the optics of those donations don't look good. However it would be up to any individuals who felt that they have given money on a false basis to take that further.

@BadSkiingMum

Well aren't you Little Miss Rational. Let's hope you never have anyone prey on your life then make you feel like you made it all up and cast themselves as the victim

@BadSkiingMum Thank you for your response. I’m not entirely sure you answered the specific questions I posed (re the inaccuracies in the narrative and the silencing of dissenters). A woman after my own heart. I am a master of providing only the information I choose, no matter what the question, so I can spot that tactic from a mile! Well done, fellow batter-awayer-of-specific questions.

Your repeated opinion that Liz is a good writer is a subjective one, and not one with which I particularly disagree. As I put in my previous post, it’s not what we are discussing on this thread, although there are no hard and fast rules here. (Heaven knows I properly derailed the thread myself and went on a long-winded and very self-serving ramble a couple of days back.)

A poster suggested you must be ‘extremely thick or impressionable’. Not particularly polite, but again, an opinion nevertheless. As valid as your opinion regarding Ms Fraser’s writing. We’re all grown-ups here. We can shrug off a bit of negative feedback without making a song and dance over it.

I find your last paragraph puzzling. What do you mean regarding the ‘benefit’ of talking about Liz Fraser’s alleged adultery? Benefit to whom? Not really sure what you are getting at there. Liz Fraser's alleged adultery is very integral to our discussion on here, and is something we will continue to discuss if it suits us. If we get silenced on here yet again, the debate will move elsewhere. By all means, you steer clear of the subject if it doesn’t benefit you.

And you are right that people can take legal action if they feel they have been duped into parting with money. Maybe they will. But legal action is not mutually exclusive to a thread on Mumsnet which has been illuminating, helpful, supportive, interesting, curious, formerly very funny (until the MN fun-sponges took away our ball), and very much something a lot of us choose to be part of. If you’ve nothing further to add, then may I politely suggest this is not the thread for you?

@BadSkiingMum In a deleted thread @Cambridgebun mentioned that they had been approached by the press ( probably the DM as it often sniffs around here and ran a story purely based on her SM a few years back) and did not want to speak with them out for the sake of her children ,who they have a close bond with.

I don't think people are that concerned about her adultery as an act - adult lives are messy rather than she has monetised it and written it out of her history....

To quote from her honest memoir "...we were both a bit lost in ourselves when we got together, both in a strange no man's land between post break up freedom and life's uncertainty..."

He was recently married and she had attended the wedding with her family ( friends of Mike's ex has stated that openly, ie via their personal ,named Twitter/SM accounts in the past.If it was libel, Liz could have acted). How honest is that? It doesn't appear that much fact checking went on there and that was published by Bloomsbury and promoted on Women's Hour and in The Times. So it's all a bit of a muddle isn't it regarding being out in the open= fact checked and legit.

I would also be amazed that numerous people would come on here with such a variety of made up stories with such rich back stories. Maybe I'm being naive.

@ObservingToo was in contact with the CAB regarding starting a claim to get her subscription refunded, but as she is living in temp accommodation with her children, dealing with the massive fall out from DA that resulted in the a custodial sentence, I can imagine going through with that would take a lot of extra mental energy.

Yes, she is no Anna Delvey, but when you are poor a small amount of money to some is quite a loss. The trouble is no one knows how much money Liz has had donated to her.

And ffs I didn't log out so I got a notice about this...honestly I do need to bugger off... those tote bags won't make themselves @RhinoRhino !

I have read your replies. Once again, this is not my fight and I simply had a passing curiosity about the subject of a thread in Active Conversations. I am not going to get riled up about this and will shortly unfollow the thread.

Thank you @Beanchops for the additional information and some of the history. I can see that there are quite a few layers.

Once again, I encourage anyone who feels they have given money on a false basis to take action in real life. I am not saying this to be irritating, or to shut down conversation, but because I believe that it is possible to use official processes or channels to challenge those who are less than honest. But I take Beanchops' point that it depends on having the time, capacity and resources to do so. But if you can, then do.

The truth will out, sooner or later.

A few years ago, my husband died. He was in his 40s and our children were pre-teens. His death from MND was horrific, paralysing his body until breathing was literally impossible. I had to go from part-time to full-time work to manage the bills. Balancing being a mother, wife and caregiver was a challenge. Balancing being a mother to grieving children who witnessed this is more than a challenge. I often reflect on the choices I had and have during this journey. None of these choices included giving up work or taking to my bed, two things I’d love to do more than anything. She had many choices. She chose to make the bad ones.

I’m doing this right now trouble is each small claims court case is standalone with no way of tying the instances together which is why people do this. The police won’t get involved because they have to prioritise resources for big frauds not less than £300 to £400. Civil courts have long queues. Theses lot of people ripping people off out there. I’m not give to any charity again. As the the NCDV, it’s not worth making the call to. It’s only interested if it can refer to to a service it gets a financial kickback from. Refuge or Women’s Aid are much better bets. I’ve told my DV story too many times on this group to go through telling it again. This group of women are the best there are. Most have experienced trauma and all have supported each other Liz could have joined the group and we could have helped her too. Instead she is choosing to troll us. Irony or what?!

@Waverleyst I am so sorry to hear about what you and your family have been through. I don't entirely know what to say, other than that I hope you and your kids are well and thriving and that you all have good support networks around you.