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Coming Clean by Liz Fraser

1000 replies

RhinoRhino · 25/06/2023 12:13

A couple of threads that I had posted on relating to the Memoir ‘Coming Clean’ by Liz Fraser have been deleted from the MN site, apparently due to non-compliance of the MN guidelines from the posters. MN are obviously well within their rights to delete threads if they demonstrably fail to comply with their guidelines, nevertheless I feel strongly that MN posters are given a platform to critique this book, and also any other public ventures by this author. It would be neither fair nor right that posters are completely silenced in this particular matter.

As such, and in line with Mumsnet not seeing “anything wrong with honest feedback” I would like to make the comment that Coming Clean as a Memoir falls short due to the shaky and not entirely truthful narrative. There are certain facts contained within this memoir that are easily disprovable (for example, relating to the marital status of both author and her partner when they started their ill-fated affair), which leaves a massive question mark over the rest of the book. Is it entirely reasonable to make money from something that is promoted as truthful when it is, in fact, not entirely true?

I think there are people whose lives have been negatively impacted by the book and its subject matter, and I hope that MN will agree that these people should have a voice, as should anybody who wants to comment on a published piece of work.

As long as posters align their comments with the MN guidelines, this is a topic that people may wish to keep discussing, and also keep in the public domain. And if MN wants to provide a set of rules particular to this thread – certainly if they are arbitrary and differ from the general guidelines - I am sure it would be very helpful.

Mumsnet, please help us to help each other by keeping in the public domain something that us silenced mums feel should be out there.

OP posts:
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Intriguedbythis · 28/06/2023 18:58

she claims she didn’t speak publicly about suicide but I remember it in coming clean and also back as far as ‘06

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/liz-fraser-confessions-of-a-yummy-mummy-6106808.html

I don’t know.. as a ‘parenting expert’ I wouldn’t flippantly speak about suicide on my gram. Seems a extremely melodramatic way to react to people TRUTHFULLY writing things online…. Almost a type of silencing you could say….

Intriguedbythis · 28/06/2023 19:05

I wouldn’t be so bold as to preclaim how someone felt but I can assure you it would be extremely unhappy and desperate if

  1. my married friend who attended my wedding purposefully and dedicatedly stole my husband and then gleefully boasted about moving to Italy with him all over SM many times a day
  2. my friend who ‘worked’ with my , frankly non highly likely to inspire lust, husband had a 6 year long affair with him. Being so intwined and intrusive on the family that she did a PODCAST with his daughter. Oh and if you Google her alongside his name her pic shows up on a old blog about her where she boasts about being this ‘funny man’ friend.
Intriguedbythis · 28/06/2023 19:06

So LF, try and think about that as I would prefer someone writing TRUE things about me online than either of those awful situations any day!!

Intriguedbythis · 28/06/2023 19:10

In totally unrelated news..

the blogpost called

‘ A week of filming…’

available widely and openly on Liz Fraser’s Wordpress is a interesting read ..

RhinoRhino · 28/06/2023 19:24

Wow. The published article you linked to is very enlightening. It serves to highlight that the patterns of behaviour and addiction evidently go back decades. It’s very sad, but I think Ms Fraser always looks externally for blame when it is obvious to the average onlooker that if the common denominator is Liz Fraser, then the only person who can start the healing process is herself. The chaos of her life is well documented (by Ms Fraser herself) in the public domain, and until she acknowledges a lot of uncomfortable truths, and honestly wants to make the effort to help herself, nothing is going to change for her.

In other news, I’ve looked at TL (but not yet joined, being a rhino of little brain who thinks entering a code somewhere will be fiendishly difficult). I love Lyraboop’s comment “Whoever would have thunk it. A beautiful cooperation between TL and MN. All due to bonding over the delectable LF”. Rivalry between the mums and the tattlers? Love it! Where does Reddit (which I have joined) sit in the hierarchy?

OP posts:
Umbrella99 · 28/06/2023 19:37

Burgundybrin · 28/06/2023 09:35

Sorry, posted too early! We need to make sure we can get the regulars over to TL and/or Reddit. These are just the names I can remember, sure we're missing lots more.

@CambridgeBun @ericalaing74 @Raydt @hazydaisy82 @Wrongsideofliz @marstonroadmrs @Umbrella99

Yes please !

Larkspurblue · 28/06/2023 20:22

@RhinoRhino

"Wow. The published article you linked to is very enlightening. It serves to highlight that the patterns of behaviour and addiction evidently go back decades. It’s very sad, but I think Ms Fraser always looks externally for blame when it is obvious to the average onlooker that if the common denominator is Liz Fraser, then the only person who can start the healing process is herself. The chaos of her life is well documented (by Ms Fraser herself) in the public domain, and until she acknowledges a lot of uncomfortable truths, and honestly wants to make the effort to help herself, nothing is going to change for her".

She has really come out of the traps today with some absolute humdingers.

It's all in the public domain, she said:

"I learned recently that there are people out there who try very very very very very hard every day ... to destroy every part of my being and business and work and sanity and health and income and family and LIFE ..."

That is one hell of a claim. To believe that, you would have to believe that there is a group of people whose entire philosophy is to destroy Liz Fraser. I think most people are getting on with jobs and families and the day to day minutiae of life and don't really have time for destroying other people. Least of all writing lengthy diatribes on social media. It just isn't credible that a community of people, as here on Mumsnet, gather together with the sole purpose of "destruction". They have gathered to share stories and offer support about the harm they have suffered and, as @RhinoRhino says, who is the common denominator?

On her next post she describes a Wednesday evening drinking wine by the river chatting about travel, books and bitches.."

I think we wouldn't get far on here if we used similar language about her.

A question Mumsnet - does being a professional victim entitle a person to different, preferential treatment?

LibertyLily · 28/06/2023 20:58

Well said @RhinoRhino and @Larkspurblue!

I, too, spotted that rather pointed "bitches" comment and was in no doubt to whom she was referring. One rule for her, another for the rest of us.....

RhinoRhino · 28/06/2023 21:37

@Larkspurblue You've hit the nail on the head. I can't speak for everybody on here, but I certainly am not out to destroy Liz Fraser. I find such a slur coming from her insulting and disrespectful and I would hope it was made in the heat of the moment and will be removed as soon as she has given the matter some proper focus. In any case, it's pretty bizarre for somebody allegedly so emotionally fragile to throw out baseless petty insults to people she doesn't know in order to gain sympathy from strangers on the internet.

What I am interested in - which I would have thought was apparent to anybody reading the various MN threads - in is clarification on some of the more creative narratives that Ms Fraser has put out into the public domain, including the content of Coming Clean (which raises many questions over truthfulness), the success of In My Headcase (of which there have been claims never backed up by a single shred of evidence), etc etc, along something - ANYTHING - offering any extenuating circumstances re the extra-marital affairs with two of her friends' husbands. Overlapping affairs at that. I notice that not once in any of her writings, interviews, SM posts etc has she even mentioned the affairs, so it's not unreasonable to assume she is acutely aware that her actions were wrong and hurtful and horrible and duplicitous, and damaged many people, including her own family. If she knows her engaging in extra-marital affairs was wrong and hurtful, then why does she lash out at everybody and anybody, cry "troll", "bitch" and "witch" to the lovely, funny, witty and inclusive cleaners of MN (now Reddit and TL)? It's unnecessary and bizarre.

I'm a happy member of the MN Cleaning trolls (which is, of course, a joke!), and, as I said, I hope when Ms Fraser reflects on her insulting public comments she either clarifies that she was not lumping all the lovely MN ladies together and abusing us all, or she simply removes these very ill-judged, and frankly extremely nasty and childish posts.

OP posts:
Intriguedbythis · 28/06/2023 23:51

Yes quite. She knows very well how appalling conniving and backstabbing she has been with affairs not once but TWICE ( at least) it’s almost quite impressive, I know I couldn’t keep a lie up for over 6 years hurting a huge number of people

i certainly wouldn’t be able so attend a wedding ( of another) affair under the guise of friendship to the wife and be plotting to shag the husband

why doesn’t she tell the TRUTH about that?

I would be … red faced.. about it all

Larkspurblue · 29/06/2023 09:45

I spent a bit of time today trying to make sense of the multitude of posts yesterday on Instagram and Twitter. The juxtaposition of a jolly (if slightly manic-looking) dance with text suggesting that she is in a fragile mental state, including possible self harm, is confusing to say the least. Maybe this is why she received very little feedback on Twitter (few likes). Perhaps people are tiring of the over-blown tirades.

I noticed, all in the public domain, that she uses highly emotionally-toned language presumably designed to whip up her followers into a ferment of moral outrage on her behalf.

Some quotes from her output:

"online stalking and abuse and defamation and DEVASTATION"
People trying to "break me", "damage me"
"It can KILL people and destroy those around them"
"the hate and ugliness and damage and negativity they bring into this world"

If these statements are looked at rationally and dispassionately, and compared with what is actually written by the people being accused, there is an enormous dissonance. As @RhinoRhino stated earlier the posters on here are not looking to destroy her or those around her at all. If she took the time to actually HEAR (excuse the caps) what people are saying she might free herself from it. It struck me as true, and I had never thought about it before, that she has never mentioned her multiple adulterous affairs. This is despite the fact that this behaviour has been called out in numerous places on public platforms - here, Reddit, Tattle Life, Amazon and Good Reads reviews of "Coming Clean" among others.

There is a very strong element of gas lighting she uses to deny the lived experiences of the people she is referring to as "stalkers" and "abusers". It is cruel and, dare I say, abusive to people who have had those lived experiences and were silenced before they found the various threads that helped them to realise they aren't going insane.

RhinoRhino · 29/06/2023 12:57

Agree @Larkspurblue

I feel very strongly about the scurrilous accusations put on social media yesterday, and Ms Fraser publicly implying that ‘other people’ are wholly responsible for her chaotic emotions.

I know the MN cleaners all have their own stories, but I have never seen anything like the self-pitying accusations and finger pointing from any of them that we get from LF.

Not particularly expecting anybody to be interested, but the following might explain why I am so interested in giving ‘honest feedback’ on the self-absorbed witterings of this particular person.

Bear with, if I seem to be off topic here:

A while back an innocent question on my part, asked of my neighbour, ended up in years of unrelenting vitriol thrown at me and my family, which for a protracted period of time was absolutely horrendous. I thought we had a reasonable relationship with the neighbour, so thought nothing when I bumped into him one day, of asking him about the siting of the dilapidated vehicle he had recently parked in front of my living room window, significantly impacting on the beautiful view of the valley below. I asked how long it would be there, but didn’t even get as far as pointing out that with hundreds of acres of land it might be more neighbourly for this eyesore to be moved elsewhere before he muttered darkly that we “shouldn’t be having this conversation” and stalked off. Very odd. Didn’t know what to make of it.

Little did I know of the zealotry with which a narcissist will punish. The lengths to which they will go to pursue a vendetta. How naive was I? I had obviously made a massive mistake by questioning this man, and I paid for it for YEARS.

To cut a (very) long story short, this was the beginning of the most bizarre and horrendously stressful few years (yes, years!), in which - particularly me - but also my husband and 3 young children were bullied, ostracized, targeted, talked about, threatened, provoked, had property damaged, were spied on, sworn at, filmed – you name it, it happened to us. We also experienced the crocodile tears of a cowardly bully on the odd occasion we managed to challenge his conduct. Other neighbours in our small development, although not as horrendous as the protagonist, soon joined in the fun. (We called them the ‘cheerleaders’ or ‘sycophants’, hence my utter disdain for the LF ‘twitterphants’.) We received pompous missives from the tedious twit of an Army Officer who lived two doors down telling us we had done such and such a misdemeanour, and how our conduct was negatively affecting the neighbourhood, to which I would reply that the accusations were wholly inaccurate, but thanks for letting me know etc. (Of course the accusations were abject nonsense, but I wasn’t going to justify myself to Major Humour Bypass.) The drunken old harpy who lived next door to us would have loud and long-winded phone calls with other neighbours within earshot when we were trying to enjoy some time in our garden, criticizing everything about us, from what we were wearing to my husband’s balding pate(!). (We still sometimes quote her to each other “YOU, with your wine and your candles” and “YOU with your bald head and your shorts!”.) It got to the point where we would sidle out of our own house and scuttle to a small, private part of the garden in the vain hope that nobody would see us and start something. They’d even have what we called ‘clan meetings’ about us, where they would gather in one house to plot about is. Looking back it was all completely surreal!

At one point, the neighbour bought himself a commercial sawmill and would use it daily from 8am to 6pm within yards of our house. The noise was deafening. Cannot possibly be within H&S guidelines to have such noise so close to residences. He did this all summer long for at least the last 3 or 4 years we lived there. (Council Noise Nuisance couldn’t do anything, of course. Of course they couldn’t. Where there isn’t a will, there is certainly no way!) His kids and grandkids used to drive round and round our house on noisy quad bikes for hours on end, with 4 or 5 yapping dogs running alongside. Neighbour collected up all his rusted old farm machinery, trailers, truck, tractors etc (no longer a working farm, in order to get planning permission for 3 residences, one of which we lived in) and dumped it all in front of our view. He stacked black-plastic wrapped bales as high as he could, as close to our house as possible. He blocked me and my young children from leaving the development, by having a ‘broken down’ digger on an impassible part of the access road. He had recently threatened my husband that he would happily go to prison in order to ‘sort me out’, so I was naturally apprehensive at being imprisoned by his digger, and had to ask my then 85-year-old father to drive 20 miles to come and rescue us. Even as we clambered into my father’s car and drove away we were followed at close quarters by my neighbour in his car until we could get to a more public location. He and his son ambushed me on a dark and isolated lane (a situation which I managed, by the skin of my teeth, to escape). This last one was the last straw at which point we decided to leave. (And yes, we should have left years before, but for some naïve reason we used to think it would all get better!) And no, the police ‘couldn’t do anything’. No will. No way.

It was horrendous. And of course, no campaign of bullying is complete without threats of legal action. I got so many solicitor letters from the idiot that the postman once laughed as he handed me the latest! (I was friendly with the postie, and he had no time for idiot neighbour, so he wasn’t being horrible!) There were many threats of injunctions (from where I parked my car, to what I could plant in my garden, to you name it …….), and lots of pompous drivel from a various solicitors. (I think he went through 3 of the buggers during his vendetta against me and mine.) I answered all the solicitor letters myself, pointed out the inaccuracies and asked them to explain themselves, which they could never do. Such letters are sent to intimidate, by idiots who think everybody is intimidated by solicitors, and whilst I wasn’t intimidated by the accusations per se, dealing with constant vexatious complaints all added to the stress we were under. Whilst both working and bringing up 3 children. Oh, and both my mother and sister died during this time, too.

All the misery inflicted upon us was borne of me asking this man a perfectly reasonable question.

So, back on topic. It was during the endless hours of composing responses to solicitors and also to the (by now) Colonel Pomparse (our naughty nickname for the now promoted Army twit) that I happened upon the witterings of Liz Fraser on SM. I know we are not encouraged to diagnose, but by this time I was an expert in spotting narcissistic behaviour. An expert! It would be true to say my interest in this particular narc was displacement from the awfulness of the situation I was in, and although we have long since moved and are thriving as a family, I have kept up my interest in the eccentric conduct of one LF. (What the former neighbours are up to I neither know nor care!)

To this day I get very passionate about the injustice of narcs attacking, bullying and intimidating people who have crossed them. And I don’t accept their crocodile tears.

Sorry if that was very self indulgent, but at least I’ve got it off my chest!

OP posts:
Burgundybrin · 29/06/2023 14:05

@RhinoRhino what a story! Definite narcissist behaviour. If you haven't already discovered it, the podcast "Something was wrong" is full of stories like this. A really fascinating listen. Start at season 1.

Larkspurblue · 29/06/2023 14:29

@RhinoRhino what a horrible story. Glad you are happy and thriving in your "new" house 🤗

LibertyLily · 29/06/2023 16:57

How bloody terrible for you and your family @RhinoRhino - I'm so pleased you managed to escape to somewhere without that kind of hassle/heartache.

And I thought our nearest neighbour was bad....

We own one of two long-converted agricultural buildings that were once part of the large estate of our other neighbour, a tudor mansion. 'Rob the Knob' owns the other. He objects wholeheartedly to anything the mansion owners do to make ends meet - eg the very occasional (and tbh fairly quiet in the great scheme of things) wedding or other event on site. Apart from the constant reporting of anything and everything to the local authorities, he regularly pokes his noisy chainsaw/power tools through the boundary hedge in order to disrupt any perceived 'proceedings', interrupting beautiful harp playing being one of his most notable 'achievements'.

The private water supply pipe for the mansion passed through his land and in a fit of pique he cut it off causing them to have a new borehole drilled (I believe he'd already done similar to the - repossessed - previous owners of our house so on purchase we had one drilled too).

He's also been known to throw punches at anyone who dares disagree with him. He hates us because we failed to support his efforts to get the - just four per year! - weddings stopped. The lovely mansion owners have admitted defeat and are selling up but I imagine the new owner might be worse in the eyes of Rob the Knob...better the devil you know and all that!

Sorry and as you were!

Larkspurblue · 29/06/2023 17:13

@LibertyLily

Blimey, what a lot of dysfunctional people there are in the world! So sorry to hear these stories of narcissist behaviour. Makes me glad I live in a very boring street!

RhinoRhino · 29/06/2023 18:55

@LibertyLily Ugh. Sorry to hear about your neighbour.

Rob the Knob sounds like a real annoying yob! How sad for the various owners of the other properties to live next to such an eejit. The private water supply issue must be in the narcissist neighbour handbook as we also had similar nonsense non-issues to deal with on that score.

Eg, Idiot neighbour: “Your soakaway is not functioning properly and it is damaging my land”.
Us: “Au contraire: our soakaway is functioning properly and is not damaging your land.”
Followed by tumbleweed, because we all know his claim is unprovable nonsense.

Next …….. Idiot neighbour: “Your overflow pipe is discharging onto my land and damaging it”
Us: “Umm, think that’s your pipe, mate …….”
Followed by tumbleweed, because we all know that we are correct, and that if he pursues the matter we may start to look into the lack of easement for said pipe being laid under our land!

Next …… Idiot neighbour: “oops, I seem to have dug up your phone cable while I was titting around with my digger in exactly the position I knew the phone cable had been laid underground” …….. etc
Followed by us spending inordinate amounts of time sorting out his vandalism with the telephone company ….

You get the picture.

They definitely have a handbook!

And, a propos of nothing, the shared water treatment system got some significant abuse when Colonel Pomparse came back from deployment. Don’t know what they feed those army boys on manuoevres, but the septic tank was in our garden and we were tempted to pre-emptively wear nosepegs if we knew he was coming home ……..

Sorry, we’re way off topic now!😂😂😂

OP posts:
Larkspurblue · 30/06/2023 06:54

So, yesterday evening Liz's ex and son came for dinner - sausages? (steady on @RhinoRhino)

She then wrote this:

"Drinking wine and reading a new book while my youngest two children have bedtime stories together and I gotta tell you this is a very happy, loving family set-up that I am ALL FOR, and I feel a bit teary from the warmth of it all.

Love is love is love. And we are so lucky to have it, value it, enjoy it and cherish it."

WTAF is she talking about? She smashed that family to pieces with her greed and selfish desire to take what wasn't hers. She humiliated her ex and three teenage children at a time in their lives when they needed a strong stable parent. They were the subject of gossip and speculation and she dragged them into her acrimonious split from the person she had been having a long-standing affair with and involved them in her new affair with a "family friend" whose wedding they all attended in Scotland.

What an absolute sh@t show! If they are a "happy, loving family" it is because the children's father held the hold thing together, not Liz.

LeoDiCapricorn · 30/06/2023 07:51

It's hard to believe anything that's written I'm still following and still mad about the mad lies and gaslighting

Larkspurblue · 30/06/2023 07:52

Btw, the previous post was not me being a "b@tch" (the slur aimed at the MN cleaning ladies two days ago) or a smear campaign. It is based on information in the public domain - reviews of her book on Amazon/Good Reads and testimony on this site from people who were present at the time the events took place. Some of them even taking care of her children when she left them to go abroad with her new partner and new baby.

RhinoRhino · 30/06/2023 09:35

@Larkspurblue @LeoDiCapricorn It’s the 6 million dollar question, isn’t it? It’s public domain information that Ms Fraser walked out on her 3 children to move abroad with the jobless alcoholic, yet she can never specifically acknowledge it. Acknowledge what it says about her as a mother, nor how detrimental it must have been for her children. Even in this day and age it is extremely unusual for a mother to abandon her kids in order to move abroad for no reason other than she fancies it, and to lose regular face to face contact with them. For a mother to choose to do this, on the basis of pursuing a short-lived toxic relationship with an unsuitable man, is so beyond the normal maternal instinct for 99% or more of women that it absolutely merits discussion and ‘honest feedback’. The honest feedback from this (average) mother is that it is such a shocking thing to do I will probably never understand it. However much it is analysed on here.

And then to blithely bang on via SM about what a great mother she is, what a fabulous relationship she has with her older children, in spite of a huge abundance of evidence that she rarely sees them and hasn’t spent Christmases or birthdays with them for years just defies logic. It’s perplexing, and something absolutely worthy of discussion on a forum for mums. It is not being “bitchy” to share the confusion with others on here. Maybe, one day, somebody will have an answer that we can accept as the truth. In which case there wouldn’t be much to discuss.

I think we can all see there is something not quite within the normal range of expectations about the way Ms Fraser processes situations, and (like all of us to some degree) re-imagines reality to suit the agenda of the moment. If there is no diagnosis, eg BPD, Narcissism etc, then what are we left with? Delusions? Conscious lying for clicks? I don’t think it is pathological lying, because I think there is always a reason behind the untruths. A reason which always seems aimed at making Liz look good, or sad, or maligned ….. anything for attention, basically. Any reader of her SM accounts witnesses daily the gaslighting and fake narratives that she puts into the public domain, and it is equally fascinating to me how the tiny number of active supporters to her chaotic and non-joined up posts lack the ability to get it. Their prerogative, I guess!

The threads on Tattle Life and Reddit have got going, which is great for if Mumsnet want to suppress our freedom of speech yet again on here. Shame we’re having to move, but if Mumsnet want to conduct themselves in such a draconian and arbitrary way, maybe they don’t deserve honest conversations from the lovely LF cleaning ladies. Mumsnet, the conversation will continue, with or without you.

OP posts:
ObservingToo · 30/06/2023 10:45

RhinoRhino · 30/06/2023 09:35

@Larkspurblue @LeoDiCapricorn It’s the 6 million dollar question, isn’t it? It’s public domain information that Ms Fraser walked out on her 3 children to move abroad with the jobless alcoholic, yet she can never specifically acknowledge it. Acknowledge what it says about her as a mother, nor how detrimental it must have been for her children. Even in this day and age it is extremely unusual for a mother to abandon her kids in order to move abroad for no reason other than she fancies it, and to lose regular face to face contact with them. For a mother to choose to do this, on the basis of pursuing a short-lived toxic relationship with an unsuitable man, is so beyond the normal maternal instinct for 99% or more of women that it absolutely merits discussion and ‘honest feedback’. The honest feedback from this (average) mother is that it is such a shocking thing to do I will probably never understand it. However much it is analysed on here.

And then to blithely bang on via SM about what a great mother she is, what a fabulous relationship she has with her older children, in spite of a huge abundance of evidence that she rarely sees them and hasn’t spent Christmases or birthdays with them for years just defies logic. It’s perplexing, and something absolutely worthy of discussion on a forum for mums. It is not being “bitchy” to share the confusion with others on here. Maybe, one day, somebody will have an answer that we can accept as the truth. In which case there wouldn’t be much to discuss.

I think we can all see there is something not quite within the normal range of expectations about the way Ms Fraser processes situations, and (like all of us to some degree) re-imagines reality to suit the agenda of the moment. If there is no diagnosis, eg BPD, Narcissism etc, then what are we left with? Delusions? Conscious lying for clicks? I don’t think it is pathological lying, because I think there is always a reason behind the untruths. A reason which always seems aimed at making Liz look good, or sad, or maligned ….. anything for attention, basically. Any reader of her SM accounts witnesses daily the gaslighting and fake narratives that she puts into the public domain, and it is equally fascinating to me how the tiny number of active supporters to her chaotic and non-joined up posts lack the ability to get it. Their prerogative, I guess!

The threads on Tattle Life and Reddit have got going, which is great for if Mumsnet want to suppress our freedom of speech yet again on here. Shame we’re having to move, but if Mumsnet want to conduct themselves in such a draconian and arbitrary way, maybe they don’t deserve honest conversations from the lovely LF cleaning ladies. Mumsnet, the conversation will continue, with or without you.

Worse still, to me and I’m sure many other one time members of Mumsnet forums it is clear now that MN is not her to support mums like me. I’m clearly not the type of parent the staff at Mumsnet want to associate with. Too abused and not middle class enough. What an ugly group of women they must be. This group however are the best of the best.

ObservingToo · 30/06/2023 10:46

Larkspurblue · 30/06/2023 06:54

So, yesterday evening Liz's ex and son came for dinner - sausages? (steady on @RhinoRhino)

She then wrote this:

"Drinking wine and reading a new book while my youngest two children have bedtime stories together and I gotta tell you this is a very happy, loving family set-up that I am ALL FOR, and I feel a bit teary from the warmth of it all.

Love is love is love. And we are so lucky to have it, value it, enjoy it and cherish it."

WTAF is she talking about? She smashed that family to pieces with her greed and selfish desire to take what wasn't hers. She humiliated her ex and three teenage children at a time in their lives when they needed a strong stable parent. They were the subject of gossip and speculation and she dragged them into her acrimonious split from the person she had been having a long-standing affair with and involved them in her new affair with a "family friend" whose wedding they all attended in Scotland.

What an absolute sh@t show! If they are a "happy, loving family" it is because the children's father held the hold thing together, not Liz.

She doesn’t know what family is. Given family or chosen family.

Intriguedbythis · 30/06/2023 10:51

So very well said. I don’t know why, but the fact she attended Mike’s wedding in Scotland just shocks me even more !! Can you even begin, but BEGIN the imagine the utter shock and horror Mike’s poor ( although ultimately dodged a bullet) Mike’s newly married wife felt to have her husband stolen and her new marriage ruined by a friend who travelled to her effing wedding in another country?!

Raydt · 30/06/2023 10:53

Intriguedbythis · 30/06/2023 10:51

So very well said. I don’t know why, but the fact she attended Mike’s wedding in Scotland just shocks me even more !! Can you even begin, but BEGIN the imagine the utter shock and horror Mike’s poor ( although ultimately dodged a bullet) Mike’s newly married wife felt to have her husband stolen and her new marriage ruined by a friend who travelled to her effing wedding in another country?!

I’d assumed it was in Scotland 🥶

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