Fed up of being labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’

[WilsonMilson]

Just that. I’ve expressed some concerns about the vaccines, AZ in particular.

I’m very glad we have vaccines for the elderly and vulnerable, as covid can be deadly. But, as yet we simply do not have the data on longer term outcomes from vaccines and that concerns me when we start jabbing the young and the healthy. We are already seeing blood clots with AZ becoming a serious issue.

I’d consider myself an educated and informed person. My ds has had all his routine vaccinations to now and I am not a tin foil hat wearer, flat earthier, or conspiracy loon of any description. Yet, whenever trying to initiate a sensible discussion based on science and reason, it gets shot down as conspiracy or am labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, which I am emphatically not.

Why is is so difficult, here and elsewhere to have a sensible discussion about this?

@Fishandhips reported. People like you shouldn’t be allowed a SM account.

[quote DelilahTheParrot]@Fishandhips reported. People like you shouldn’t be allowed a SM account.[/quote]
What for?

@WilsonMilson

Just that. I’ve expressed some concerns about the vaccines, AZ in particular.

I’m very glad we have vaccines for the elderly and vulnerable, as covid can be deadly. But, as yet we simply do not have the data on longer term outcomes from vaccines and that concerns me when we start jabbing the young and the healthy. We are already seeing blood clots with AZ becoming a serious issue.

I’d consider myself an educated and informed person. My ds has had all his routine vaccinations to now and I am not a tin foil hat wearer, flat earthier, or conspiracy loon of any description. Yet, whenever trying to initiate a sensible discussion based on science and reason, it gets shot down as conspiracy or am labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, which I am emphatically not.

Why is is so difficult, here and elsewhere to have a sensible discussion about this?

It’s very hard to believe that your goal is to have a sensible discussion when you’ve had four pages of responses and haven’t engaged with any of them.

And that seems to be the pattern. A new poster. “I’m not anti vaccine, but ”. Then non engagement. A new poster with a new thread every few minutes. I’m pretty suspicious most aren’t genuine.

I’m also really bored of it.

[quote DelilahTheParrot]@Fishandhips reported. People like you shouldn’t be allowed a SM account.[/quote]
Did you mean fishandhips? What did they do?

I have to assume that you just started this thread to get people frothing, but just in case, this sentence from your OP is why I'd call you an anti vaxxer and assume you're not actually making any real effort to understand the science:

We are already seeing blood clots with AZ becoming a serious issue.

Because this is just not true. So. [shrug]

I agree with you OP. I will not have the AZ but will gladly have the Pfizer if it is made available to me.

And that seems to be the pattern. A new poster. “I’m not anti vaccine, but ”. Then non engagement. A new poster with a new thread every few minutes. I’m pretty suspicious most aren’t genuine.
Same here, but as long as people calmly and fairly point out the rubbish, it might reduce the impact of the scaremongering.

@ilovesooty

I would automatically call all people who refuse the vaccine anti vaxxers.

Well you’re misusing the term then. Unless people who turn down the flu vaccine every year are also anti-vaxxers?

Actually @Fishandhips I had to reread your post several times, and hands up I think I got it wrong. It read to me as though you were saying that all deaths within a few days of AZ are “a million per cent” certainly linked to it but maybe that’s not what you were trying to say? Vaccinating at this rate there are bound to be deaths within days of vaccinations, but it’s quite unlikely that many of them will be from the vaccine itself

@DelilahTheParrot

Actually *@Fishandhips* I had to reread your post several times, and hands up I think I got it wrong. It read to me as though you were saying that all deaths within a few days of AZ are “a million per cent” certainly linked to it but maybe that’s not what you were trying to say? Vaccinating at this rate there are bound to be deaths within days of vaccinations, but it’s quite unlikely that many of them will be from the vaccine itself

No, I was criticising many of the arguments on here by those who hang on to the number of deaths within x time frame of vaccine as gospel and 100% linked; yet criticise the same thing when it is related to covid if that makes sense. It probably wasn't clear, but from reading your post earlier in the thread it seems we are on the same page!

@Fishandhips sorry! Important that I acknowledge as I like this username and don’t want to have to NC in embarrassment

@Fishandhips I’m disappointed that no one has picked up on my leeching comment though. I was hoping for an explanation of why people don’t think this is what they’re doing.

[quote AUserName12345]@MarshaBrado

Its long winded but do your own research on the PCR test which "confirms" a covid 19 infection.

Its been banned in Portuagal and areas of Germany and two other counrries as it is not fit for puropose.

Therefore you never really knew if anyone was actually infected with covid19[/quote]
How strange, Portugal requires a negative PCR test for entry.

@AUserName12345 right, so you’re saying that PCR tests were picking up remnants of random colds from six months earlier so they definitely weren’t positive for covid, and those same people were dying in hospital on ventilators because of something else.... okaaaaaay.

You’re wrong. Here is just one on many studies.

www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1137

“Approximately one million excess deaths occurred in 2020 in these 29 high income countries. Age standardised excess death rates were higher in men than women in almost all countries. Excess deaths substantially exceeded reported deaths from covid-19 in many countries, indicating that determining the full impact of the pandemic on mortality requires assessment of excess deaths. Many countries had lower deaths than expected in children

[quote bumbleymummy]@ilovesooty

I would automatically call all people who refuse the vaccine anti vaxxers.

Well you’re misusing the term then. Unless people who turn down the flu vaccine every year are also anti-vaxxers?[/quote]
I qualified that to wouldn't in my next post, immediately. Is your attention span so short?

Still in trials This is the anti vax favourite. No they are not in trials. They were licensed following the completion of phase three trials

If that is the case, why are they only authorized for emergency use throughout the world?

I'm with the OP. As an elderly person I've been vaccinated as if it does harm my health I won't have many years of being unhealthy ahead of me, but I'd rather healthy young people didn't take the risk, frankly.