Fed up of being labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’

[WilsonMilson]

Just that. I’ve expressed some concerns about the vaccines, AZ in particular.

I’m very glad we have vaccines for the elderly and vulnerable, as covid can be deadly. But, as yet we simply do not have the data on longer term outcomes from vaccines and that concerns me when we start jabbing the young and the healthy. We are already seeing blood clots with AZ becoming a serious issue.

I’d consider myself an educated and informed person. My ds has had all his routine vaccinations to now and I am not a tin foil hat wearer, flat earthier, or conspiracy loon of any description. Yet, whenever trying to initiate a sensible discussion based on science and reason, it gets shot down as conspiracy or am labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, which I am emphatically not.

Why is is so difficult, here and elsewhere to have a sensible discussion about this?

[quote AUserName12345]@MarshaBrado

Its long winded but do your own research on the PCR test which "confirms" a covid 19 infection.

Its been banned in Portuagal and areas of Germany and two other counrries as it is not fit for puropose.

Therefore you never really knew if anyone was actually infected with covid19[/quote]
I’ve read this info before from a pp not sure if it was you.

Do they use a different test instead?

AUser

It’s all a bit shifting sands to me but if you don’t believe PCR are correct what is happening in hospitals when we have high recorded Covid cases?

Extra people? What do they have?

Can you say your version

I’m not having my vaccine. I am 30 weeks pregnant and I won’t be having it after my baby is born.
Just ignore the opinionated people who put you in a box, your choice and you don’t have to explain your reason to anyone, as long as your happy with your choice xx

Was it explained to you by the person giving the vaccine or was it left to chance that you would read it (as many wont or receive the patient information leaflet AFTER the vaccine)

It was explained to me that the paper had information on side effects and that I should refer to it for info on what side effects there may be, and what to do if I experience any. This was explained to me by the person outside checking people in, and again by the Dr who vaccinated me.

longer term outcomes from vaccines
There are no long term outcomes from any vaccine. Any side effects are seen in the days and weeks immediately after.

Still in trials This is the anti vax favourite. No they are not in trials. They were licensed following the completion of phase three trials.

For me it's not just about a person choosing not to have a vaccine. The fact that they do makes me think they will be cavalier in attitudes to infection and I would avoid close contact with anyone who I knew to have rejected it.

@AUserName12345 why are you assuming people aren't aware of things before they book their appointment? Your assumptions that everyone is ignorant and you are ever so enlightened is precisely why people call you an anti vaxxer, its boring. There are many reasons people don't want the jab, that's fine, but to assume everyone who does is doing so as they are ShEePlE is ridiculous. And yes the yellow card is explained in the literature they give you and verbally.

What may have changed your mind is if you knew about the scheme BEFORE you went for your appointment and you had time to look at it in detail including the reported adverse reactions.

You would have more of an informed impression instead of learning about it when you there to have the vaccine.

Why again are you ONLY finding this out when you turn up for your vaccine.

The media and government have had 14 months to tell you about this!!!

What do you mean? I don’t work in a field remotely related to medicine, have no medical knowledge or training and have been aware of the yellow card process for years. You’re acting like it’s a secret.
And I have heard it talked about on the news in relation to COVID vaccines.

@Badyboo

Because there's been a spate of posts which go:

"I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I'm on the fence having the vaccine because insert spurious, long debunked nonsense here, AIBU"

So people don't believe it on face value. Quite rightly.

That is pretty much my response to threads like that. I treat all of the anxiety/worry about vaccine threads with extreme caution. When they link to Dr Michael Yeadon and the like I know exactly what to think.

What may have changed your mind is if you knew about the scheme BEFORE you went for your appointment and you had time to look at it in detail including the reported adverse reactions.
It's a bit patronising there. I did know about the scheme, and also knew about vaccine side effects.
You would have more of an informed impression instead of learning about it when you there to have the vaccine.
I see. Thank you for bringing my informed consent into question.

Why again are you ONLY finding this out when you turn up for your vaccine.
I didn't ONLY find out at that point. The question was were we told.
The information was given to everyone at our centre. The same information has been available unless people have been living under a rock.

The media and government have had 14 months to tell you about this!!!
You're still pushing the big nasty media, government stuff there.

Another day, another person concluding that people who've had the vaccine didn't make an informed decision and there's a government/media conspiracy. It's one step away from the sheeple posts.

@RachyRoo89

I have had all vaccines approved by the EMA. Covid vaccine hasn't been approved so I am not having it.

Calling someone an "anti-vaxxer" when they refuse ONE type of vaccine - for valid reasons - is just lazy.

Many conspiracies and labels are actually being started by those high up in power or influence, to discredit those who "go against the grain".

Just ignore it. Honestly.

P.S. There is a thread on Mumsnet purely about vaccine uptake stats, it's being updated daily by the same posters, I have looked up a few of the posters and they have only ever commented on recent vaccine posts. So I'm guessing government bots are at work (again) trying to influence people all over social media. That, or some Mum's REALLY need to get a life, and also have way to much time on their hands lol but in all seriousness, what good vaccine needs this kind of propaganda campaign?

I wouldn't call someone who didn't want it for whatever reason anti vax, those like @AUserName12345 though who spout superior crap fit the bill nicely though.

More people get blood clots [insert other side effect] from Covid than from the vaccine.

If you’re worried about blood clots, you should have the vaccine.

By not having it you’re leeching onto the protection that you get from wider society being vaccinated, as a result of which you assume that you won’t get Covid and therefore won’t get a blood clot either way.

its pressure to have once you are there

Is there? What are you basing that on?

I don’t work in a field remotely related to medicine, have no medical knowledge or training and have been aware of the yellow card process for years. You’re acting like it’s a secret.
And I have heard it talked about on the news in relation to COVID vaccines
Naaaah, you're wrong. You haven't actually known these things and if definitely hasn't been reported.
You're probably just a sheeple who hasn't read the right things because if you were truly informed you'd wake up and have declined the vaccine.

Ok, but I suspect it was just the "Sore arm" "headache". Did you know that over 1000 people have died.

Died of what exactly AUserName12345?

What are the statistics on the number who are vaccinated Worldwide and the numbers who would have been expected to die of other causes. You can't just throw numbers around and expect them to be taken at face value.

I would love to see your sources.

I think the blood clot panic is a little confusing given the stats relative to, say, the combined contraceptive pill. I think it’s now being wheeled out as a reason for people to avoid it, by people who didn’t previously have what they deemed a justifiable reason, some of whom will be taking a medication daily that puts them at far higher risk.

And then there’s the fact that those of us with autistic children have had years of low level (and some higher level) anti-vaxx sentiment thrown at us - it’s not uncommon for me to hear “I don’t really think MMR causes autism but what if it does?” followed by a head tilt and sad face at my kids. So I’m pretty tired of vaccine rhetoric that has no scientific basis. So much general vague distrust of vaccines has permeated society thanks to the prick who shall not be named.

If you’re legitimately more concerned about a small risk of blood clots vs the risk of COVID / the risk of new strains which increases when more people refuse vaccines then that’s your business. I find it unlikely that the majority of people are extremely concerned about blood clots though.

@knittingaddict

Ok, but I suspect it was just the "Sore arm" "headache". Did you know that over 1000 people have died.

Died of what exactly AUserName12345?

What are the statistics on the number who are vaccinated Worldwide and the numbers who would have been expected to die of other causes. You can't just throw numbers around and expect them to be taken at face value.

I would love to see your sources.

What you will find is criticism toward the metric of died within 28 days of a positive covid test, but none towards died within x days of vaccine- those are a million per cent most certainly linked.

@AUserName12345

It feels to me as though what you're saying is that, if people properly understood the position regarding the vaccine (as you believe it to be), the vast majority would consider the risk of the vaccine to be very significant and would therefore decline it and the only reason people don't decline it more frequently is that the risks are not being widely communicated by the MSM. Is that about right?

@AUserName12345

Thank you, I did indeed go to the stats as you suggest. Your 1213 figure is highly disingenuous.

53 people have died of blood clots with low platelets; this has been agreed to be a very rare side effect of the AZ jab. Every one of these cases is tragic and since my son has already had a catastrophic loss of platelets after a different vaccination, he will never have the AZ.

The data shows other people have died within a week or two of vaccination. However as the website points out, in the early days people in care homes and with severe underlying conditions were prioritised for vaccination and it is no surprise that some of these people sadly died soon after being vaccinated. I read a Norwegian report where they vaccinated a very elderly person already on an end of life pathway and in a coma; he died an hour later and it had to be reported as a possible vaccine death, but it wasn't, was it?

Look, there is a very low chance of a serious blood clot after AZ and a serious allergic reaction after Pfizer. But you cannot say that over a thousand people have died "of the vaccine". It's just scaremongering.

That should say 53 people in the UK.

Bloody hell. 58 people. Apologies.