Fed up of being labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’

[WilsonMilson]

Just that. I’ve expressed some concerns about the vaccines, AZ in particular.

I’m very glad we have vaccines for the elderly and vulnerable, as covid can be deadly. But, as yet we simply do not have the data on longer term outcomes from vaccines and that concerns me when we start jabbing the young and the healthy. We are already seeing blood clots with AZ becoming a serious issue.

I’d consider myself an educated and informed person. My ds has had all his routine vaccinations to now and I am not a tin foil hat wearer, flat earthier, or conspiracy loon of any description. Yet, whenever trying to initiate a sensible discussion based on science and reason, it gets shot down as conspiracy or am labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, which I am emphatically not.

Why is is so difficult, here and elsewhere to have a sensible discussion about this?

basic maths. How many jabs? (millions). How many deaths/serious effects (tiny percentage). How many deaths from covid? How many disabled temporarily or permanently from covid?

Yes, it is shit if it happens to you

if you expect totally safe, you are a fool. If you can't assess risk, you are also a fool. not an anti-vaxxer, just a fool who can't do basic maths.

If you had cancer you’d be first at the door asking for radiation to be pumped into you.

Wow. No, I actually wouldn't!

I don’t understand why everyone gets so worked up about it either. It’s not difficult. A vaccine is available. When it’s offered you can either have it, or choose not to have it. Your prerogative. I personally chose to have it.

I'm the same as you. I'm young and healthy so turned down my vaccine, only to be met with questions and hostility from friends and family. Which is weird because whether I have the vaccination ot not, I can still have it and spread it! Only difference is that I'm supposed to fight it off more easily. So me having it or not doesn't actually affect anyone. I'm not having it, because its too new and experimental. I don't want to be a test guinea pig. There aren't any results to study and make an informed choice, because its all happening in a whirl wind. I respect your choice, listen to your gut feeling.

@AUserName12345

What is your source for that? It sounds incredibly unlikely to me and a quick google suggest it's not true..

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/money/warning-scammers-claim-covid-19-24075296.amp

Which is weird because whether I have the vaccination ot not, I can still have it and spread it! Only difference is that I'm supposed to fight it off more easily. So me having it or not doesn't actually affect anyone. I'm not having it, because its too new and experimental. I don't want to be a test guinea pig. There aren't any results to study and make an informed choice, because its all happening in a whirl wind.

This is an oversimplification that is being used as an argument to not be vaccinated @Beautiful3

the level of transmission from people who are vaccinated is substantially lower than those who are not. On a population level, this makes a huge difference in terms of transmission.

As for the rest, the trial data is all publicly available which people can use to help inform their choice, as is the data from the people vaccinated in the roll out. I think it's over a billion people now who have received it.

Re blood clots, here are some helpful comparable statistics... if you've latched onto that without actually gathering extra info about the real level of risk, maybe being called an anti-vaxxer is justified? You've read into it what you want to.

Risk of blood clots ℹ️
💉AstraZeneca vaccine: 0.0004%
💊Birth control pill: 0.05 to 0.12%
🚬Smoking: 0.18%
🤒Covid infection: 16.5%

Source: NHS salford clinical commissioning group.

@Beautiful3

The covid vaccines all significantly (by about 75%) reduce both the occurrence of symptomatic disease and transmissibility.

Whether you have the vaccine or not is your choice but it is not true that the only effect of the vaccine is to reduce disease severity.

Problem is because you can't just keep your opinion to yourself and needing validation and agreement from others.
If you don't want it, that's totally fine. But "I'm not anti vaxxer blah blah blah" really irritates me. Just don't say anything to the people who are likely to have opposite opinions to you. Then no one will call you anti vaxxer.

@Badyboo

Because there's been a spate of posts which go:

"I'm not an anti-vaxxer but I'm on the fence having the vaccine because insert spurious, long debunked nonsense here, AIBU"

So people don't believe it on face value. Quite rightly.

Yep.... lots of nonsense given about why someone decides not to get vaccinated and misinformation is annoying.

Why dp people keep starting threads with I'm not having the vaccine because...blah blah blah and then usually list misinformation.

Don't want it, then don't have it...no need for another thread

@roguetomato

Problem is because you can't just keep your opinion to yourself and needing validation and agreement from others. If you don't want it, that's totally fine. But "I'm not anti vaxxer blah blah blah" really irritates me. Just don't say anything to the people who are likely to have opposite opinions to you. Then no one will call you anti vaxxer.

Totally.

Why do they have to keep telling everyone 🙄😕 just don't have it then

@SecretThermalsAreTheBest

Re blood clots, here are some helpful comparable statistics... if you've latched onto that without actually gathering extra info about the real level of risk, maybe being called an anti-vaxxer is justified? You've read into it what you want to.

Risk of blood clots ℹ️
💉AstraZeneca vaccine: 0.0004%
💊Birth control pill: 0.05 to 0.12%
🚬Smoking: 0.18%
🤒Covid infection: 16.5%

Source: NHS salford clinical commissioning group.

This is really useful 👌

I've only found it on here, most people I know in real life have either chosen to take their vaccine or have declined, neither making a song and dance about it. There are also so many threads on this, probably doesn't help if you don't want to hear about it.

It depends what the questions and concerns are. I've seen lots of discussions on different groups about vaccines, especially breastfeeding groups. They have been generally interesting discussions.

On the other hand most people I've seen who say "I'm not an antivaxxer, but I'm just asking questions, why does everyone have a problem with people asking questions" tend to also post or say things that suggest they are either an antivaxxer, a conspiracy theorist or both.
Sooner or later they resort to something like "everyone believes whatever the government tells them... why does everyone hate critical thinkers" or "but I'm alright Jack, I read some questionable statistics and I'm young so yeah"

@AUserName12345 where did you get the stats with 1100 deaths in the UK?.

Genuine question BTW.

@AUserName12345

I also very strongly suspect that deaths following the vaccine are much less under reported than minor side effects such as a bit of a headache or a sore arm.

If someone dies a death certificate will need to be signed by a doctor, I suspect the vast majority of doctors are aware of the yellow card scheme.

@SecretThermalsAreTheBest

Re blood clots, here are some helpful comparable statistics... if you've latched onto that without actually gathering extra info about the real level of risk, maybe being called an anti-vaxxer is justified? You've read into it what you want to.

Risk of blood clots ℹ️
💉AstraZeneca vaccine: 0.0004%
💊Birth control pill: 0.05 to 0.12%
🚬Smoking: 0.18%
🤒Covid infection: 16.5%

Source: NHS salford clinical commissioning group.

Those 'helpful statistics' have been thoroughly debunked on another thread.

But anyone can report adverse effects! Often they have nothing to do with the vaccine in the end. They are just things that were correlated in time to the vaccine. Some might have a causal association; many won't. So you can't just look at prevalence of reporting.