EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

no That is total BS!

Le Pen will talk the next election is this is anything like as bad as it looks for France.

Le Pen is getting a boost without doing anything at all. Macron's going to deliver France to the far right personally at this rate

I am trying and failing to see how Boris Johnson would fair if he had resisted calls to lockdown for three solid months choosing to tell us that he knows better, and now thousands will die

You don't need to imagine! he was advised by SAGE to LD in september, the so called kent variant was discovered then as well, that went national, now global, he didn't LD for another 3 months, deaths than rose to 1800 per day for a short period, he got off Scott free because of the vaccine roll out & the UK media.

Now from i can gather, Macron hasn't learn't a thing from our mistakes in the winter and that is a tragedy, i sincerely hope he is soon booted out and wiser hands are in power.

However, i don't see this as an EU problem and neither do i have any issue with Sputnik V, Russia has some amazing scientists, easily as good as anything in the west.

If europe or anyone else can't get vaccine from usual sources, then they have to look elsewhere e.g. Russia/China

jas as usual you miss the most important element of the Sputnik procurement and why it is so dangerous, so I won't bother pointing it out to you, I will let the the minster in France:

'France on Friday accused Russia of using its Sputnik V Covid-19 vaccine as a tool to spread Moscow's influence and message rather than as way to fight the global health crisis.

"In terms of how it is managed, it (the Sputnik V vaccine) is more a means of propaganda and aggressive diplomacy than a means of solidarity and health aid," Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told France Info radio.'

Le Drian said both Russia and China were using their vaccines to gain influence abroad "even before vaccinating their own populations."

The Russian vaccine has come under much criticism in Western countries, while President Vladimir Putin — who got a Sputnik jab himself on Tuesday — has dismissed the skepticism as "strange."

www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/03/26/france-slams-russias-sputnik-vaccine-as-propaganda-tool-a73377

You seriously can't be so naive as to not understand the implications of the Russian vaccine (which was stolen intellectual property from AZ one might add) and the new Nordstream running into Germany from Russia, not to mention the deal with China going ahead despite the millions of Ugihurs being tortured in camps and not feel even the smallest bit of discomfort?

Or are you so brainwashed now it is not possible to see how dangerous this could be for you and all of Europe?

@jasjas1973

I am trying and failing to see how Boris Johnson would fair if he had resisted calls to lockdown for three solid months choosing to tell us that he knows better, and now thousands will die

You don't need to imagine! he was advised by SAGE to LD in september, the so called kent variant was discovered then as well, that went national, now global, he didn't LD for another 3 months, deaths than rose to 1800 per day for a short period, he got off Scott free because of the vaccine roll out & the UK media.

Now from i can gather, Macron hasn't learn't a thing from our mistakes in the winter and that is a tragedy, i sincerely hope he is soon booted out and wiser hands are in power.

However, i don't see this as an EU problem and neither do i have any issue with Sputnik V, Russia has some amazing scientists, easily as good as anything in the west.

If europe or anyone else can't get vaccine from usual sources, then they have to look elsewhere e.g. Russia/China

We had a lockdown in November though. I agree it was too short and we were then exposed to the Kent variant. I am no Boris fan but I am pedantic and 3 months is just not true.

@jasjas1973 which country are you from?

Thanks pomme saved me having to point out the misinformation in that hyperbole!

@Itsalonghaul ...and as usual, despite a different thread, you are just as arrogant and condescending as before.

On sputnik, you are happy for AZ to be exported from EU countries before they have vaccinated their own populations but complain about Russia/China.

Has the AZ Russian hack on IP rights been proven? nope, yet you present it as a fact.

Do you have any concerns about the amount of fossil fuels the UK buys from Russia? the UKs position on trade with China?

No thought not.

fwiw i have wanted to severely limit trade and ties with China since Tibet, long before current issues arose, the human rights and theft of IP has been going on for decades, with the Wests compliance.

Jas is a british expat based in Spain, she has had the AZ vaccine and so have all of her family as per last thread.

Oh you're still pretending that it is EU property being exported rather than private companies with components and supply chains around the world and contracts they are fulfilling?

[quote jasjas1973]@Itsalonghaul ...and as usual, despite a different thread, you are just as arrogant and condescending as before.

On sputnik, you are happy for AZ to be exported from EU countries before they have vaccinated their own populations but complain about Russia/China.

Has the AZ Russian hack on IP rights been proven? nope, yet you present it as a fact.

Do you have any concerns about the amount of fossil fuels the UK buys from Russia? the UKs position on trade with China?

No thought not.

fwiw i have wanted to severely limit trade and ties with China since Tibet, long before current issues arose, the human rights and theft of IP has been going on for decades, with the Wests compliance.[/quote]
Well, quite - and not to mention our own dear leader installing Lebedev in the HL...

I have been dipping in and out of this thread but sadly it appears to have become the new Brexit Arms!

On sputnik, you are happy for AZ to be exported from EU countries before they have vaccinated their own populations but complain about Russia/China

The AZ vaccine is being supplied from the EU as per contract. The EU is not run by a dictator who only seeks to destabilise the west (although that is questionable given VDL latest faux pas)

Has the AZ Russian hack on IP rights been proven?

You may have doubts, but I don't and the intelligence certainly points to that. You underestimate the Russians at your peril jas

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/17/russian-hackers-steal-coronavirus-vaccine-uk-minister-cyber-attack

au.finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-china-hack-european-medicines-agency-171924406.html

Do you have any concerns about the amount of fossil fuels the UK buys from Russia? the UKs position on trade with China?

The UK have not just signed a deal with China, the EU has! It is rather strange that you don't know that. How can you still support the commission if you care so much about Tibet? Surely this makes you feel extremely uncomfortable.

The UK is working very hard to use green energy and electricity. We are at least making plans to end the use of fossil fuels full stop. Germany is still investing in the very same thing even now.

You have got to do better than this Jas, your defence of the EU is weak, and clearly the latest developments are doing nothing to help you.

Brexit is done and dusted. Why is everything still framed around whether we should have left the EU for some? It's done. Move on.

TheMancunianCandidate It is more likely you have simply run of ways of defending the indefensible.

This gives us all abit of hope that Germans can at least see the difficulties:

Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at <a class="break-all" href="https://www.ft.com/tour" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.ft.com/tour</a>.
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.ft.com/content/bc5a3b02-a90d-4206-a441-1bada29feba2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.ft.com/content/bc5a3b02-a90d-4206-a441-1bada29feba2</a>

Steffen Bockhahn does not mince his words when it comes to Germany’s Covid-19 vaccination campaign.

“We are the laughing stock of the world,” he says. “Germany was supposed to be world champion at organising things, and look at us.”

Well worth a read from the FT from a German perspective.

www.ft.com/content/bc5a3b02-a90d-4206-a441-1bada29feba2

@TheHoneyBadger

Brexit is done and dusted. Why is everything still framed around whether we should have left the EU for some? It's done. Move on.

Oh I couldn't agree more, absolutely

Do you recall this quote from the first page of the first thread?
"How many remainders are relieved we are no longer in the EU now???"

Itsalonghaul

Sorry, I only mentioned googling it because it takes you to the FT without the paywall.
I know why but it just does.

although I am tempted to subscribe as I seem to be finding quite a lot of interesting articles.

*I don't know why

Do you recall this quote from the first page of the first thread?
"How many remainders are relieved we are no longer in the EU now???"

I’m sure any of us could pick one post from over two thousand to support any argument we liked, but that’s not to say it would reflect the thread correctly.

I'd caution comments along the lines of the whole French hospital system is about to collapse when in many regions/departments people are still being called for routine outpatient appointments..the reality seems to be the Intensive care system is struggling in several departments.

As for Mr Macron, he's nicely got himself into a situation where he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't..a hard lockdown now is a vote loser, no lockdown now is obviously a vote loser...

....and as for the darling Marine....other candidates of various political shades will be available (Mr Melenchon for example...) Madame Le Pen is not a shoo-in, no matter how badly Mr Macron stuffs up;

What is Le Pen's stance on the EU? What specifically defines her as 'far right'? I'm asking because the term seems to get bandied around a lot these days including if you're not an advocate of gender ideology and I'm losing the ability to know fact from hyperbole or to find unbiased sources on anything.

@TheHoneyBadger

What is Le Pen's stance on the EU? What specifically defines her as 'far right'? I'm asking because the term seems to get bandied around a lot these days including if you're not an advocate of gender ideology and I'm losing the ability to know fact from hyperbole or to find unbiased sources on anything.

She's tried very hard over the last two-three years to slide away from the hard right, certainly her stated view on things like law and order and immigration would sound familiar to anybody versed in UK politics..whether some of the shakers and movers behind the scenes in her party, Rassemblement National (RN), are quite as moderate..

With regard to the EU the RN supposedly abandoned any thoughts of Frexit etc a couple of years back..

www.franceinter.fr/politique/marine-le-pen-renonce-officiellement-au-frexit-dans-son-projet

ATM she's sticking to the maxim of not interrupting an opponent too much when they are making a mistake, and given she is potentially a bit exposed on the issue of vaccinations I suspect she's choosing her words on that issue very carefully.

www.parismatch.com/Actu/Politique/Marine-Le-Pen-pas-fan-de-la-vaccination-anti-Covid-1715578

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-evidence-to-support-age-restriction-for-astrazeneca-vaccine-says-eu-regulator-7nr8cr6bc

Sorry, behind a pay wall but the EMA has responded to recent developments and here's the gist:

"The EU’s medical regulator has said there is “no evidence” to support the decisions by countries such as Germany, France and Spain to stop using the AstraZeneca vaccine on younger adults because of concerns about a rare blood disease."

And:
“According to the current scientific knowledge there is no evidence that would support restricting the use of this vaccine in any population,” Emer Cooke, the EMA’s director, said this afternoon.

Cooke, said the agency still believed the benefits of the vaccine outweighed any risks. Over the past three days its panel of scientists, including haematologists and neurologists, scrutinised the data and were unable to find proof for a causal link with the blood disorder. Fuller findings will be published next week."

If the EU does buy Sputnik or sinopharm they’ll need to be very careful not to be flip flopping on ages, stops, starts and questioning safety and efficacy etc as they do with AZ. Neither country will take kindly to this sort of international coverage , it could spark an international incident by accident...
It’s one thing to upset the Brits dissing their vaccine, quite another the Chinese or Russians!