EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

It was in the British news that the uk want to expand the mix & match study ans are asking for more volunteers. I thought ... well they have a few in Germany and France

Yes, my DH signed up to the U.K. trial at St Thomas'.

As we all know these are very new vaccines and mass rollout will flag up issues, to then start mixing and injecting before the full extent of each vaccines risks are fully understood seems a bit previous. I think it's more sensible to break the back of this virus with two shots of the same before we go head long into the even more unknown.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@usuallydormant because Macron said AZ was quazzi ineffective on over 65’s without any medical data to back this up, and then said only for use in under 55’s even though the EMA said carry on using it, and now without EMA’s approval he’s still going to use J&J even though the USA have suspended it![/quote]
The EMA has approved J&J.
A reminder that The US has still not approved AZ, that’s not stopping other countries.
AZ chose not to test on enough over 65 yr olds to give reliable data - Macron got the wrong end of the stick and made a stupid one off comment based on the fact that there was no data to show it was reliable for this age group. Now there’s a lot more data on this age group the decisions can be reviewed and revised. It’s not hypocritical to change approaches based on more data. Just like it’s better to pause AZ on under 55s until more data shows what the issue is and how those most at risk can be identified and monitored.

A good factual overview of the different vaccines, EMA approval and stated efficacy rates is here: www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-tracker-what-s-available-in-the-republic-of-ireland-and-what-else-is-coming-1.4481095

I sincerely hope this is the last of these EU bashing threads.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@usuallydormant because Macron said AZ was quazzi ineffective on over 65’s without any medical data to back this up, and then said only for use in under 55’s even though the EMA said carry on using it, and now without EMA’s approval he’s still going to use J&J even though the USA have suspended it![/quote]
But didn't the earlier and inaccurate remarks refer to the lack of data (from AZ) of efficacy for those over 65's?

Plus it wasn't just France and Germany, i presume JJ have got better data or Macron has learned to keep his opinions to himself until there is more compelling information.

If France is using JJ on the older population, where there has been no clotting reported, don't see the problem.

There's version of Godwin's law in play here..no matter what the latest controversy is within half a dozen posts Mr Macron or "the EU" gets dragged into it.

...Mr Macron raises eyebrows about one vaccine- he get's slammed by the usual suspects.

He doesn't say anything about another - he gets slammed by the same handful of usual suspects

It's almost as if some people are more interested in trying to justify a past political decision and indulge in petty childish squabbling than objectively debate the fight against the virus itself.

What does that have to do with Godwin law? It fits better with bringing up the empire and accusing posters of being imperialists

@TheHoneyBadger

What does that have to do with Godwin law? It fits better with bringing up the empire and accusing posters of being imperialists

Keep using that artistic licence Honey can you show the post where anyone was called an imperialist?

now who made the analogy (of presumably brexit) to the defeat by the British of the Armada?

@TheHoneyBadger

What does that have to do with Godwin law? It fits better with bringing up the empire and accusing posters of being imperialists

My comment was "a version of Godwins Law"..(my emphasis)

In that with grim inevitability within hours of a decision made in Europe and a handful of posts the subject heads off into the same direction...

In the case of Godwin's law we know what that subject is, in the case of this place/this law, context of this thread we know what that subject is: blame Mr Macron.

FWIW the French decision may have been at the level of Mr Castex, Mr Veran, or at Conseils de défense level..yet for some reason Mr Macron gets the name check...

The EU messed up big time. I’ll leave it there, i’m not replying anymore as it’s getting boring. I wish you all the best and hopefully everyone will get a vaccine soon, as I love Europe and can’t wait to go back for a holiday.

I wish you all the best and hopefully everyone will get a vaccine soon,

Thanks (genuinely), and by way of anecdata I'll chuck in that in this part of the EU we're getting our first vaccination early next week, (Pfizer, 55 plus with zero comorbidity group), second RDV already booked in April.

Not sure if that counts as still being messed up but it's certainly not a bad thing.

"...Mr Macron raises eyebrows about one vaccine- he get's slammed by the usual suspects."

I would say that announcing that a vaccine, specially one that's been approved by the relevant regulators and is in use in other countries, is 'quasi ineffective' for part of his population is rather more than 'raising eyebrows'.

It would have been more appropriate to say that France is delaying its use until they have more data.

It would have been more appropriate to say that France is delaying its use until they have more data.

Fair point ...though of course for the sake of context and accuracy (which I'm sure we are all keen on) we are almost two months down the road from that single comment and AZ now makes up about very roughly 20% of the daily total of vaccines put into arms in France......

I would have thought Denmark would redistribute and sell their az stock to European countries who need and want the doses?
Did Denmark do a deal buy Israel left over pfizer?

www.euronews.com/2021/04/15/european-countries-express-interest-in-purchasing-denmark-s-astrazeneca-vaccines

usuallydormant Thu 15-Apr-21 06:30:22

A good factual overview of the different vaccines, EMA approval and stated efficacy rates is here:
www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-tracker-what-s-available-in-the-republic-of-ireland-and-what-else-is-coming-1.4481095

Interesting that for Pfizer and Moderna they list the ordinary side-effects, eg headaches, chills, etc, but for AZ they only mention the clots. Despite the fact that the side-effects most people are likely to have are pretty much the same as for the first two.

@notimagain

There's version of Godwin's law in play here..no matter what the latest controversy is within half a dozen posts Mr Macron or "the EU" gets dragged into it.

...Mr Macron raises eyebrows about one vaccine- he get's slammed by the usual suspects.

He doesn't say anything about another - he gets slammed by the same handful of usual suspects

It's almost as if some people are more interested in trying to justify a past political decision and indulge in petty childish squabbling than objectively debate the fight against the virus itself.

Spot on!

Theres still no clear answers to eu az supply chain and issues between the eu and astrazeneca.
Eu were quick to say usa has not sent them anything but chose go mad at uk .
Turns out the Mayland plant in usa gas sent stuff to Europe.

www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-vaccine-shortfall-production-woes-documents/

Also of interest the eu has failed to do a deal with norovax or valneva both meant to be produced within the UK later this year.

www.politico.eu/article/valneva-walks-away-from-vaccine-negotiations-with-commission/

[quote 3asAbird]Also of interest the eu has failed to do a deal with norovax or valneva both meant to be produced within the UK later this year.

www.politico.eu/article/valneva-walks-away-from-vaccine-negotiations-with-commission/[/quote]
Rather selective?

The company said it instead would shift to negotiations with individual EU countries and interested nations outside the EU

The vaccine producer signed a deal with the British government in the summer of 2020 and subsequently expanded it to secure 190 million doses through 2025

Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced last week that the EU is focusing more on mRNA vaccines for the future, with a new deal for 1.8 billion BioNTech/Pfizer doses from 2021 until 2023

Valneva's candidate is made with an inactivated whole virus — a similar approach to numerous Chinese vaccines but used by few other Western companies

The Chinese vaccine, CronaVac has an efficacy of around 50% but 100% in preventing hospitalisations, so why would the EU want something similar?

I appreciate there's a strong impetus in this thread to pick a side of EU or UK, so it's easy to get carried away responding. I think it's better not to criticise potential lifesaving vaccines however without having done any research into them. We all have an interest in everyone in both UK and EU being vaccinated.

You can't compare Valneva with random other vaccines, it is a different vaccine. Phase 2 trial results have been very positive and it could prove particularly useful as a booster to protect against all variants because it's whole virus:
valneva.com/press-release/valneva-reports-positive-phase-1-2-data-for-its-inactivated-adjuvanted-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-vla2001/. If it works that's great for the UK, but isn't as good as hoped then nothing much is lost for UK. If Pfizer fixes variant issues the EU will be sorted and if not there's a chance for Valneva to set up additional facilities at the time. It isn't as much of an issue as first doses that are needed immediately to provide some protection.

Just read in the guardian
"EU declines option to buy 100m extra Covid vaccines from AstraZeneca

The European Commission has said it would not take up an option to buy 100m additional doses of AstraZeneca’s Covid vaccine- which is included in the current supply contract the EU has with the company.

A spokesman told a news conference that the deadline to exercise the option had already expired and the EU did not plan to take it up, according to Reuters.

The Commission has ordered 300m doses from AstraZeneca as part of a contract that included 400m doses, of which 100m was optional."

I guess it makes sense as many countries are already limiting the use of AZ per age and also they want to move forward with ARNm vaccines.

Also read about EU taking AZ to court (I feel like a dejavu with this topic, every few weeks since January this topic keeps coming back)
www.politico.eu/article/eu-preparing-legal-case-against-astrazeneca-over-vaccine-shortfalls/

Great news, USA will put blood clots on the leaflet and restart Janssen. Now to see what the EU countries will do (I won't say EMA because they seem to be being ignored):
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56865562.

[quote MRex]Great news, USA will put blood clots on the leaflet and restart Janssen. Now to see what the EU countries will do (I won't say EMA because they seem to be being ignored):
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56865562.[/quote]
I hope Europe/UK don't use the JJ vaccine, countries like India need it far more than we do.
Europe wants Pfizer or similar, not suitable for dev countries.

A single dose vaccine like this is perfect for dev world with their limited population health databases, making a 2 dose vaccine hard to fully administer.

Yes, if it could be made available to ship immediately to India then that would be great. India have officially said they approve any vaccines approved by UK and a few other places, I think also USA.

Angela Merkel has made a statement that India better fulfil it’s vaccine order to the EU

www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/merkel-s-vaccine-nationalism-threat-to-india/amp

What a hypocrite