Boris in hospital

[Cary2012]

Breaking news.

@alloutoffucks

I'm afraid you aren't able to read critically.

Paragraph 1: "Its government experts say the virus will be defeated only once most of the population gets infected and builds up immunity to it."

No source is quoted for this. It's speculation on the part of the journalist.

Paragraph 2: "It’s called “herd immunity”" Again this is speculation. No government source is quoted as saying their policy is herd immunity.

Para 8: "“Well, herd immunity is the situation where you get so many people in the population to develop an immunity to a disease that there is no opportunity for the disease to actually become established and spread to lots of people,” said Nick Phin, deputy director of the National Infection Service."

He's explaining what herd immunity is because he was asked to in a Channel 4 interview. He isn't saying this is government policy.

Did you read this article? If you did, where do you think it said that herd immunity was government policy?

@sucking Have you watched the press conference? I have. People do not stand up and say - The government policy now is to....
They present it and explain it. Watch the press conference. It was government policy

Gosh well that is not good. Wish him a speedy recovery.

I must say he sounded quite brave, I would have been moaning with a fever.

And I can't believe that you are arguing this did not happen. I feel like I have stepped into the book 1984 for real.

@SuckingDieselFella

The pm said we can let it run through the population and “take it on the chin”

The initial briefing stated the plan was up let60% of is get it to build up herd immunity

Then following outrage “the science changed”

It was leaked that Dominic Cummings had as expected been behind the Immunity plan and said if some old people die so be it.

Just want to add despite being no Tory I really do hope the ok makes a recovery soon. No one deserves this illness. I hope his partner is well too

Shocking typos there. Sorry! Tired

I felt physically sick when I saw that first broadcast. I don’t understand how anyone can not have felt the same

I'm spending far too much time on this. Having thought about it, I realise it was very difficult for the government. Too few people would've accepted the strict measures necessary to have prevented it ever getting this bad. Unfortunately too many people only worry about it if and when it's too late. That doesn't excuse the lack of PPE but that's not all on the current leadership. The NHS has been mismanaged by all governments for decades. There was a certain amount of head in sand attitude from those in charge too. Hence Boris's own illness. I think I'm in a minority when it comes to wanting preventative action at a time when most people would claim there's no need? Unfortunately it's too late by the time they realise there actually was a need.

Few people would have accepted it?? That is why you have leadership. Leaders lead people and persuade them. That did not happen.

I think I'm in a minority when it comes to wanting preventative action at a time when most people would claim there's no need? Unfortunately it's too late by the time they realise there actually was

This is so true of the way epidemics grow exponentially. The time when extreme measures can prevent much of the suffering is when everything looks fine and there doesn't seem to be a problem. I hope that a lesson can be learned from this that action has to be taken then. By the time the effects of the illness are widely visible enough for the public to get on board, the chance to contain or hugely limit is gone.

So in the future people have to be ready to accept huge measures before they personally can see any risk. Trust will be an issue of course.

It was insinuated not leaked that Dominic Cummings said that
It is also not worth arguing with @alloutoffucks and others they know best. Even if I was told weeks before the herd immunity speech that Switzerland are still chasing with shielding that I would have to shield

@BigChocFrenzy

You need to listen to the 9 minute interview rather than copying the youtube caption.

He talks about self isolation for mild symptoms and isolation for whole households - this isn't herd immunity. He explicitly states that behavioural science (i.e. herd immunity) doesn't take precedence over "clinical imput". The interviewer asked how many people need to have contracted the virus for herd immunity to exist and he said 60%. He said that communities becoming immune will be an important part of their strategy in the longer term because he's expecting it to come back in waves. I don't hear anything in that interview which indicated their initial policy was herd immunity. What do you think he said that demonstrated this?

@excitedmumtobe87

"The pm said we can let it run through the population and “take it on the chin”

The initial briefing stated the plan was up let60% of is get it to build up herd immunity

Then following outrage “the science changed”

It was leaked that Dominic Cummings had as expected been behind the Immunity plan and said if some old people die so be it."

What is the exact quote from Boris that you are talking about and what is the source please?

I'm not sure you've got the initial briefing right. Can you link to it please? As I said above, the Sky news interview indicates that herd immunity was part of their longer term strategy.

The science did change, it was the Imperial College report that made them change strategy. Plus people on mumsnet were clamouring for a lockdown.

It wasn't leaked that Dominic Cummings was behind it. It was made-up guff that was 'leaked'.

@Didkdt Thanks for the heads up.

@alloutoffucks

"They present it and explain it. Watch the press conference. It was government policy"

So you're on about a press conference now, rather than a newspaper for US lawyers?

Which press conference? What was said specifically about herd immunity?

What Cummings said was leaked in quotes. Some journalists may be rubbish but they never put things that are insinuated into quotes.

Cummings denied it and claimed defamation but never filed for any kind of defamation law suit. Journalists will tell you a failure to make a claim like that means he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Politicians and celebs do it all the time to manage their image... say it’s defamation, then never actually file a case because the story was true.

Science doesn’t change. The science you choose to listen to changes. There’s a difference. Imperial college did not give the original plan, but the new one.

I very much doubt the government read that Mumsnet erte clamouring for a lockdown

@DarnedSocks I went round in circles at the start of this trying to work it out. Came to the conclusion the only way would have been to stop 95% of flights immediately and have a 2 week isolation period for anyone returning.

By the time we hadn't done those things it was too late anyway and we were always going to end up here.

Johnson is the PM. Cummings is not. The people in power weren't too squeamish, then.

Macron had a word about closing the border if stronger action wasn't taken. This might have concentrated minds.

Poor guy, such scary times. Sincerely hope he pulls through. A friend shared that relative had intermittent high temperature for over a week and then suddenly had a respiratory crash. It seems like people can go from 'unwell' to seriously ill very quickly with this thing.

I do hope he recovers. I cannot help but be angry with him for having wasted so much money and lives in the process of getting to where he is now. His refusal to protect himself and the country has led to this. First his Brexit power trip. Now infecting swathes of the population with untested medical theory to unsafe practices infecting a chunk of the cabinet and his pregnant fiancée. I cannot believe there are already herd immunity deniers.

All you posters talking about funeral arrangements are absolute ghouls. And Boris and Marina are now legally divorced as he’s engaged to Carrie Symonds. Do keep up.

There are multiple photos of her smoking. She does smoke.

Multiple photos from about 10 years ago or more. She hasn’t been pictured smoking for many years so may very well have quit, probably after deciding to start a family.

Well, if Dominic Cummings advocated herd immunity at the expense of some 'old' people that's bitten him as his uncle in his 70s just died of COVID-19