AIBU to think China is lying about its data?

[Ladyks]

Just that really. Noticed on the update that they referenced how China lowered the curve & slowed down the rate of infections & deaths... but I don’t think I’m buying it . What do you think?

Or maybe, just maybe lockdown and social distancing actually does slow the spread of a virus both in China and the U.K. because we are all humans facing the same natural disaster?

What's that point (which I don't disagree with) got to do with a potential masking of numbers?

Or maybe, just maybe lockdown and social distancing actually does slow the spread of a virus both in China and the U.K. because we are all humans facing the same natural disaster? I believe it does. I also believe if the Chinese government were honest earlier, instead of a Dear Doctor RIP risking his life to tell, we could have locked down earlier, instead of learning the truth from Italy.

Or not lying because he’s not Chinese?

Why do you bring race into it, out of curiosity? Many, many, many Chinese people think their government is lying through its teeth on this, just as many believe they did with SARS. I have friends from Hong Kong, who currently live there, and I hear plenty of conspiracy theories from them about their government. Not because the people in power are Chinese, but because they're dictators with no regard for democracy.

Well something doesn’t add up, does it? The Chinese still have a very repressive government. The fact that they make a lot of goods and export doesn’t change that.

From the Guardian

"In China, a spokesman for the PRC ministry of foreign affairs lied in suggesting that the US military could be to blame for the virus. Chinese government officials have echoed that sentiment while the CCP’s propaganda machine is busy promoting these conspiracy theories."

Why lie?

Personally I make it a policy to never trust anyone that puts up with blowtorching dogs to death.

Whilst I am dubious about any death figure (that applies to the UK as well as abroad), I do think China has got the virus under control. The BBC detailed the external testing proceedures just for getting off the plane, let alone the 14 day quarantine afterwards.

They are not going to risk reinfection.

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-anger-is-growing-at-china-over-covid-19-and-its-apparent-cover-up-attempt-11966539?fbclid=IwAR3RZRRM1zF1nx6p1wFtzYAuHKgzsXchhPv-b3psZHEWNnX0wC8g2z_vA7o

The Chinese state is a totalitarian organisation that has form for lying. That is why they're not trusted, although I doubt they particularly care. This is the same organisation that tried to cover up the biggest famine in history, caused by the Great Leap Forward. They shot the messenger then too.

Given that Chinese expatriates I know say precisely the same, I find it hard to see why saying this is racist.

Given that the Chinese state has form for telling enormous whoppers, it's perfectly reasonable to believe they would go to great lengths to deceive international experts, who in turn, don't particularly want to annoy China.

It's a big, repressive and secretive place. I can't see how their figures can truly be checked. While I can just about accept that places like Shanghai are free, they're a tiny part of China.

A country like us already has half the deaths and we are no where near the middle of this let alone the end

Of course they lied

Why else would they build ginormous temporary hospitals aka ‘mmortuarys’

So many have tried to whistleblow and been silenced

There’s even reports of mass cremations for way more people than the death toll would have answered for

You can also see from the figures quite easily which other countries are following in China’s footsteps with the same lies

My DS has lived in China for several years, 1000 miles from the epicentre, with his Chinese wife and near her family. He loves it. They went into lockdown on 23 Jan, after people had travelled to begin the New Year holiday. We are in close contact, very aware that social media are not the platforms to discuss how any government has responded.

Every death from this is a tragic statistic. The truth will never out. But I wouldn't trust Aylw@rd or the others in W H 0 as far as my little finger could throw them. Backhanders. Money talking, money lying, a constantly unlevel political playing field of finger pointing, excuses, blames and gains and losses, numbers on paper, but nobody's counting the tears shed, of course you say they're doing a bloody good job if you want them to be your friend, right?

China knows everything about me. The point I made is regarding the phone-identity-govt link

Do you not have a WeChat account that is linked to your passport? I recall that phone numbers too needed to be registered? You can’t use these things anonymously

I believe they lied, are lying, and will lie.
As soon as there economy was impacted, whoopla! Problem solved, let's go back to Business as Usual. They are trying to accuse the US now, a doctor publicising the virus "died of the Covid" (suuuuuuure), and another one is MIA.
At some point the current outbreak will be too high to hide, but they will have the convenient excuse that it is coming from the outside, with returning nationals and foreign residents. I have no trust whatsoever in the Chinese government.

And the WHO showed it's true colours during this crisis. Look at their hypocrisy even talking about Taiwan (bad network my foot).

I’ve reported this thread for racism

The theme of this thread is not racist. We know that local officials lie to Beijing; swine flu decimated their pork industry last year and Beijing could not deal with it properly because the numbers kept getting misrepresented. I suspect the same will be found in Wuhan.

How can people report on something when for the first, at least 6 weeks it was swept under the carpet.

Before a the new virus was identified as such and testing was available, I imagine a lot of deaths were noted as pneumonia or by a comorbidity and are not being counted in any countries stats.

The Chinese government is definitely lying and WHO is obviously corrupted.
Always be suspicious of people rushing to defend China. They are excellent at propaganda after all.

I feel bad for Chinese people who have to live under these conditions.

Anyone who believes they have not lied about this must ge the sort of person that believes anything the government tells them. I don't believe that the 'hospital' they built in days treated anyone, I believe it was built to just process under secrecy all the people dying of the virus to stop all the videos leaking out of people lying in hospital corridors dying. Did anyone notice on twitter how those videos suddenly stopped?

Two things with big implications are 1. That this has unfortunately permanently tarnished the credibility and impartiality of the WHO, and I'll take what they say with a pinch of salt from now on and 2. Our government continuing the 5G deal with Huawei would now be a deeply unpopular and regrettable thing to do.

I dont see what the 5g contract has to do with this epidemic. I've a feeling America might not be too honest with the figures either.

It’s funny that the more oppressive the government the less believable the statistics appear to be...

Well, we know that during the SARS outbreak the Chinese were putting their dead in ambulances and driving them around the city to evade the WHO's body count, so I expect it's much the same this time.

They brutally supress/kill dissenters and whistleblowers and have a state-controlled media so why would you believe anything they say?

It wasn’t Swine Flu, It was African swine Fever which is a disease only pigs get.

It has also been reported in Belgium, Slovakia, Serbia, China, Mongolia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, North Korea, South Korea, the Philippines,Timor Leste and Indonesia in 2019. It wasn’t a good year to be a pig. (And it was actually the year of the pig)

China, Korea, Singapore & Malaysia have all had semi-recent outbreaks of infectious diseases be it SARS or Nipah therefore acted a lot quicker within their own countries to restrict movements and trace down contacts.

Chinese numbers are likely to be worse but they have enacted a lot swifter & harsher restrictions on their population that any western country has. (We aren’t exactly welding appartment complex’s door closed)

I think the Chinese figures are almost certainly incomplete but I doubt that they are that much more inaccurate than ours. China is a repressive country but we have other evidence coming from places that aren’t (Taiwan, South Korea etc) that back up the idea that it is possible to contain this virus and slow its spread. There’s no serious evidence that China is currently experiencing what Italy and Spain are.