AIBU to think China is lying about its data?

[Ladyks]

Just that really. Noticed on the update that they referenced how China lowered the curve & slowed down the rate of infections & deaths... but I don’t think I’m buying it . What do you think?

For whoever asked upthread my wechat account is not linked to my passport number

That’s interesting. Mine had to be provided to keep using it. Phone number too. They were doing this for a lot of accounts held by expats, not just mine.

I don’t have wechat pay so perhaps that explains the difference?

Millions of people left Wuhan and travelled around China and the rest of the world, as you do when you have a week off work as they did. This was, it should be said, after human to human transmission was known

Also, this coincided with European ski season, which probably amplified transmission. Given that those with the virus can be asymptomatic for a relatively long time, its unsurprising that it has spread so rapidly. It is most current that some want to silence discussion of its origins and the original response to it. Before it became a global pandemic.

Curious, not current. Though it is both....

I don’t have wechat pay so perhaps that explains the difference

Omg how do you even! WeChat pay is the best thing ever! One of the pure delights of living in China.

The origin and start were woeful, and should not be overlooked. Repressing the Dr and allowing it to Airedale globally before shut down. Not learning from SARS and still potentially not learning from starting two pandemics.

All that and I don’t necessarily question the numbers now as they did lock down more than any other country, which does suppress. But there is a possibility given past behaviour that figures are not to be trusted.

...Spread globally

Yes China hushed it up at the start. Taiwan got the same information we did at the same time and managed to not fuck it up half as badly though. Our government can’t blame China for their failure to act. Their blame shifting and leaking against China needs to stop. It’s making it very clear that they aren’t confident in their strategy and undermines public confidence.

Regardless of the WHO 'investigation', China's numbers don't correspond to what we're seeing in other countries, which makes them extremely suspicious. And that's before we take a good look at a secretive, Communist country who have lied and covered up every single fucking thing in their history, whitewashed genocides, famines and mass incarcerations of their own citizens and been about as transparent as a large, black box on just about anything you can think of.

mango
It’s an even bigger mystery than the Chinese numbers ;)
My dh has it.
I have Alipay for taoabo, but not on my phone.

Sabine true many countries in the West didn’t really believe it for a while and acted late. Taiwan learnt from SARS and had central systems in place as a result, plus the political will which we lacked.

And today, news that another Chinese doctor who tried to alert everyone to the virus in its early stages has disappeared. If they have nothing to hide, why keep silencing the whistle blowers?

I agree China is all about reputation management first

I find it very interesting to see on SM how many people I know who think that we’ve shut down too early also think China shut down too late and/or not strictly enough. It’s as if they don’t put the same value on the lives and freedoms of Chinese people as they do on those of English people. Our government was happy to let in people without testing or quarantining from affected areas who would not have been able to travel elsewhere within that same country at the same time. That’s on them, not China, Italy or Spain.

China took action that no other country has taken which could explain why their numbers are different. Look at the different approaches in south Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.
Italy initially tried to lock down just the north and people went south taking the virus with them. China locked down each province, not just Hubei.

Everyone’s lying about the figures. Let’s face it. Even the U.K is deliberately skewing the figures with its testing

Their extreme action does explain the difference yes.

It’s as if they don’t put the same value on the lives and freedoms of Chinese people as they do on those of English people

Your comment is inadvertently hilarious. Governments in liberal European democracies do not have the ability to impose the kind of draconian surveillance and control measures possible in a totalitarian state.

At one point I saw the ambassador saying they were relaying information to WHO without hiding it. The initial response showed repression and secrecy. Does anyone who know China think this changed as a kind of forced change? They had to learn to be open or not.

@Ladyks
@wheresmymojo

asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Did-WHO-s-China-ties-slow-decision-to-declare-emergency

www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

You don’t need draconian surveillance measures to put some restrictions in place.
The uk repatriated citizens from wuhan and placed them in quarantine. But at that time the virus was in every province in China, yet the govt did not introduce any checks on arrivals from other provinces. No temp checks, no travel history details, no self isolation...nothing.

I agree that the UK government has been foolish in not implementing the border controls adopted by many other countries since this virus spread across the planet. However, had the UK done so, papers like the Guardian would immediately accuse the government of 'racism.'

Again against the initial advice from the WHO Taiwan did the below; banning Wuhan residents on Jan. 23, suspending tours to China on Jan. 25, and eventually banning all Chinese visitors on Feb. 6.

Was the WHO wrong? I find this idea that they are always right questionable.

I find it very interesting to see on SM how many people I know who think that we’ve shut down too early also think China shut down too late and/or not strictly enough. It’s as if they don’t put the same value on the lives and freedoms of Chinese people as they do on those of English people

How about just regular Chinese tourists who came down with this horrible disease whilst abroad and died in a foreign hospital, not understanding the language, and far from family. The lockdown should have been as much for their protection. Some of the earliest deaths in Europe were of Chinese tourists, and the government let them go abroad knowing that some of them weren’t coming back (or would have known, if they gave it any thought).

The Chinese government obviously does not value the lives and freedom of their people, and things have only got worse under the current leadership btw.

Also, you can criticise the British response without praising China. Why does this simple idea escape so many?

Obviously the pp I quoted doesn’t think they are always right but I see it on here a lot.