Coronavirus thread 13

[KenAdams]

Previous thread here.

We are using Worldometer, BDO and Dr John Campbell videos as part of the discussions.

Oh god where is the evidence it's like HIV???

I’ve just read that 3 of the newest cases were “intensive care patients”, so no travel or exposure to high risk persons (probably), does this mean that the nhs workforce in these hospitals have been exposed and are spreading the virus?

I can visualise two scenarios:

1. As you say, that the virus is circulating within the NHS, being spread by the workers (most likely).

2. That these ICU patients started off walking around, contracting the coronavirus without anyone knowing, becoming sicker and developing pneumonia, then ending up in ICU before someone thought they should test them (or randomly tested them).

To be honest, I don't know which of those scenarios is better/worse.

I went into my surgery today for a routine blood test. Normally results are back in 24 hours but the hca told me they could be a week. I said understandable as they must be busy at the moment. She rolled her eyes and said the media are causing a problem by scaremongering and they shouldnt be worried as its a fuss about nothing! Despite the signs on the door and NHS warnings about the virus. That's me told then.

The Wiltshire cases had all been to Italy and are known to each other. Now self isolating at home.

@tobermoryisthebestwomble but what about viral load on those staff who've had it and recovered? Have we learned nothing from China?

@User1775564212 rumour they're in Swindon

Tobermory (I liked Wellington myself)*
*
Were there only about 50 HCID beds to start with? Are they going to stop transplants as I imagine it would be impossible to have an ICU with immunosuppressed post transplant patients in with cv patients. In fact how could any non cv patients be in an ICU with cv patients. So much to get your head round and I don't envy you.

Can we please leave left vs right politics off this thread?

@furrytoebean

Its NOT HIV!

There are similarities acriss viruses in parts of the genome, hence crossovers in symptoms and so on, this only relates to the parts that help the virus to attach to the body.

I have heard concern about ICU capacity in Germany if we get tens of thousands of cases

We've far more capacity than the UK, but would struggle to cope with extra thousands suddenly needing ventilators.

Hence the measures here such as cancelling trade fairs and quarantining a lot of people
I don't know the penalties, if any, for breaking legal quarantine in Germany, but afaik noone has yet

The lost trade fairs have cost millions, with tens of millions more in lost business

Why is this thread descending into politics!!

furry

Roofers don't work all year due to the weather, you said so yourself
Your roofer was held up by weather, winter is known for bad weather.
They'd be mad to go up in all weathers so they don't. Being available is not the same thing.

Child admitted to Alder Hey hospital has tested positive today.
Some NHS workers from Alder Hey sent home to self isolate.

But they restricted everyone s movements for months

Part of the reason China did this was because they didn't have any idea of how viralent the virus was. We also now have the suggestion that the early strain of the virus was more serious.

But also China feared dissent and civil unrest as much as covid-19. This is an important thing we need to understand.

The UK public is less likely to follow draconian rules and we have less ability to enforce them anyway.

Quarantine beds were not merely medical beds but also holding camps of an authoritarian nature.

Whilst the UK government might not be doing certain things that might help, some of the measures in China were definitely not about health but we're about social control. We should not aspire to be like China for that reason.

Remember the 10 day hospital had bars on the windows. What is the medical purpose of bars on the window?

Quite possible NHS Staff are spreading the virus in that scenario @PatriciaBateman . Also possible that there is another asymptomatic/mildly affected patient in the same Critical Care unit and that they are using high flow oxygen, increasing the risk of formulation of aerosols with infective particles. Most CC units are open bays not cubicles

At this point I’m convinced I’m going to end up with it! I wash my hands often, but I’m constantly on my phone so therefore my dirty hands transfer to my phone, then my clean hands touch my phone so it transfers again. Obviously from now on I shall be vigilant about this and cleaning the phone/not touching my face etc but feeling pretty silly about not being proactive thus far.

*Dominic
*
That's a very nonpartisan mn name you have there...

Agree, but it's hard for people not to discuss how they feel it's been handled and there are political choices in there, as said by WHO today. I think the real mudslinging needs to go, but constructive criticism is good. After all BJ is not the supreme leader and JC is not, well JC.

@BigChocFrenzy we can probably increase CC bed capacity by 150%. whether we can staff them is another matter

@tobermoryisthebestwomble thanks for the update and for everything you do. If the general public really understood and accepted the current position the NHS is in, I think they would finally understand why some of us have been concerned for weeks.

Does anyone have any idea why the cv death figures for Italy are over 4 x higher than S Korea despite S Korea having roughly double the number of total cases of Italy?

My sil lives in France where all her schools, unis public places have been closed. She says it’s like a ghost town and her children are going stir crazy. She said the panic buying has taken its toll and there isn’t any loo roll or pasta.

But she feels safe.

We are due to travel to the alps on Saturday. Holiday company says it will go ahead.

Tobermory

The gov dismissed the aerosol spread question at Q and A in the HoC the other day. I don't understand that as you would think it would be a risk, or at least I don't know how they could be so sure it's not.

Ahh I’ve just answered my own question with more research I think, Italy have more recovered cases so they have had more people with it for longer.

@furrytoebean I read something a few weeks ago saying the virus had four strands of hiv in it. Have not seen anything about this since. Cant remember where article was other than online, this was when it was just contained to China so going back a bit. So whether that was fact I dont know.

I haven't used hand gel at all, so far and won't unless public health advice here changes

Alcohol handgel would probably make my hands very sore
and imo cracked skin is more likely to increase my danger

I have ramped up handwashing, especially whenever I come home and even that has meant I need to keep using hand cream.

Maybe my older skin compared to younger ones on these threads ?