Airplane terror attack

[mids2019]

If stabbing a fellow pilot and trying to down a plane with 180 Israelis isn't terrorism what is?

It seems like a mass terrorism event has been fouled but heroes on an air plane this morning

Many if our news outlets are describing this as a stabbing on an airplane. No...if you stab the pilot and the plane plummet towards the ground that is an attempt at mass murder... terrorism.

Are the media so afraid now of using the word terrorism that they completely downplay the event. Third rated news article in the Guardian after political stories

It's a reminder of how many enemies Israel has and what they are prepared to do.

Despite being a non-aviation forum we had days of speculation about AI171, MH370 pops up for.discusdion on an almost annual basis.

Yet this one has to be left to lie after 24 hours?

Absolutely, though I don't think anyone would be likely to take offence at not offering my hand if I greet them with a polite smile and slight nod of the head.

I will obviously reciprocate a handshake if offered, but if in doubt will let them take the lead. Frankly I'd prefer not to shake hands though with a strangers potentially sweaty palm. I'll do it out of politeness, but I think it's dying off a bit after covid anyway.

@Babyboomtastic hand shaking is still a huge part of the formal greeting and it’s always preferable to shake hands unless you’ve let it be known you don’t shake hands. By shaking hands, knowing how to greet someone properly, goes down very well as it indicates you know how to live in the society. That you are making the effort. Would people be offended if you didn’t? No not really but you would probably go down in their estimation, first impressions are so important.

eta have no idea about the use of coded in my previous post.

In my work, the etiquette is firmly that we never shake hands (very old tradition), so I'm more used to greeting people politely without, rather than with a handshake.

I have nothing ideological against handshakes, and if it's important to someone and they extend their hand, I will politely shake it of course. I don't think I'm obliged to initiate though.

I don't think I've offended anyone by my non initiation, but if I have, and they continue their low opinion of me despite friendly conservation, then so be it frankly.

If I need to be thrusting my hand at every individual I meet, if I ever go to the Gulf States, to be polite, then please tell me and I will. Otherwise, I will offer to reciprocate and follow their lead.

I don’t believe a word he utters, but there is no reason I can think of that he would lie about that. Interestingly petty of you, though.

Probably depends on where you are in the world but frankly if someone is going to get bent of shape by handshakes then they shouldn't be in the crew job.

It can be pretty hard spending umpteen hours locked almost continuously on a flight deck with someone you met for the first time that day...having to tread warily because of the way the first introduction shaped at briefing wouldn't be a great start to a day or several days work.

Good grief...

Lots of examples there of people not really understanding how some things work at all but knowing just enough of the language to bamboozle people.

For example if you actually understand how positioning before operating might extend duty hours the extra crew isn't a mystery.

If you don't they become part of a false flag operation.

No one said anything about getting bent out of shape. It’s not the way things are done. However I think you’re seriously underestimating how important a first impression is anywhere in the world. It’s human nature. I judge people on a handshake regardless of where I am in the world. If it’s a good firm handshake with eye contact you create a good impression with me. If it’s limp wristed and only the tips of my fingers are clasped I’ll judge you.

I've had both Orthodox Jews and devout Muslims refuse to shake my hand. It can definitely be done in a non offensive way, smiling, speaking respectfully, usually say something simple as - 'we don't do that'. I don't find it a problem as long as eye contact is made and the man in question addresses me directly. I hate it when the man in question addresses himself to the man I am with as if I were a second class citizen.

Refusing to shake hands with women is not by itself an indicator that someone is a terrorist - obviously not. But it is an indicator that the pilot was someone with views many would consider to be on the extreme side. The same could be said if an orthodox Jewish person became a pilot. The hijacker was also from Oman - a country that does not have diplomatic relations with Israel.

Flydubai, according to a Jerusalem Post report, has an explicit clause stating that all its pilots must be from countries that have normalised relations with Israel.

Israeli authorities will be asking a lot of questions re how a devout Muslim from Oman ended up being a pilot on that flight into Tel Aviv.

I think handshaking is a bit icky and wish it would fade out anyway.

I grew up knowing plenty of religious Jews who wouldn’t touch someone of the opposite sex. That didn’t mean they were all problematic - some were lovely and respectful and interested in talking to me (a woman) and some were indeed misogynists who would only speak to my brother and father.

Refusing to shake hands with women is not by itself an indicator that someone is a terrorist

I've never claimed it did, but it would be certainly be interesting to see what the impact of that behaviour, e.g. in the briefing room, might have on some crew members.

And yes I'm aware there's talk that Flydubai have possibly breached the agreement that allowed them to operate to/from TLV.

No I know you didn't.

I think that the pilot's obviously devout beliefs (he also prayed multiple times a day apparently), is going to make it harder for the airline to defend breaking the clause stating that all its pilots flying into TLV must be from countries that have normalised relations with Israel.

Yes, Flydubai have dropped themselves in the brown stuff here.

No doubt someone high up decided to turn a blind eye to the issue but some poor sod at a lower level in scheduling will probably be made to walk the plank over this...

I agree that the airline was probably turning a blind eye to the clause.

It would have been sensible to ensure that if they were allowing pilots from countries that had not normalised relations with Israel to fly into Israel, they at least chose those who appeared moderate in their religious beliefs at work.

Attacker was suicidal and shouting 'kill me' after being subdued, says Netanyahu

The attacker behind the attempt to hijack a flydubai flight was suicidal and appeared to have been attempting to down the plane, Benjamin Netanyahu said.

The attacker was shouting “kill me, kill me” after he was subdued and tied up using phone cables, the Israeli president added.

“It’s clear he was suicidal, that’s not a question,” he added.

Netanyahu also said the co-pilot had undergone a radical Islamist indoctrination.

Israel will be able to say within a matter of days whether the co-pilot had connections to Iran, he said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-dubai-flight-hijack-pilot-stabbing-flydubai-live-updates-b3059444.html

Only in the West and in Westernised countries.

If you were greeted with a namaste, would you insist on a handshake? Yes, that would say a lot about you and create a distinct first impression - not necessarily positive one.

I would say the majority of Muslims in this part of the world pray five times a day. It’s completely normal behaviour. Nothing can be surmised from that, or from the fact that he wouldn’t shake hands with a woman.

There are also other outward signs that someone is devout which I would pick up on straight away, but there’s nothing about those signs that says “terrorist”.

I would never look at a man with a long beard and a mark on his forehead from praying, wearing a midi-length dishdasha rather than a full-length one, and think “terrorist” because the chances of him actually being one are absolutely minuscule.

I suspect people are going to be very surprised when this persons name is released and we’ll find he was acting alone.

The other thing is people saying he must have had dual nationality to be on that flight because it’s only Emiratis who can fly into Israel. Fact - anyone knowing how things work in Oman will know this is laughable.

I could go anywhere in the world and greet people appropriately according to the local customs. It’s the first rule of travelling. Be a good traveller and make sure you’re remembered for the correct reasons.

Namaste? It’s strange you picked such a common greeting to quiz me on. Is it the only one apart from a handshake that you know off the top of your head?

I have worked with the kindest most gentle man who was a devout Muslim who would not shake hands with me as a female. I was surprised but eventually decided it was him respecting me as a woman within his culture and should not necessarily seen as a negative. He never undermined me in a professional manner. I am not saying he was typical of all men from his culture - but we shouldn’t generalise.

Also - I am not sure we should see people who come from a country which has generalised relationships with Israel as not being of risk. The governments of these countries may links with Israel but that doesn’t mean their populations are generally supportive.

It is a relief this attempt to kill people did not succeed and it gives those tasked with improving air travel safe a lot to consider. This will require more sophisticated thinking than generalisations popping up on this thread.

Including an elected MP apparently.

https://x.com/AyoubKhanMP/status/2105575220585349466

Is there news n how the captain is? I hope he survives, he’s remarkably brave

I read he underwent surgery and is doing well.

Interesting that you criticise this post as being 'extremely racist' when it isn't but haven't criticised @DaisyDooley's post which is blatant racism.

I've said several times on this section that posts which are clearly racist, specifically Islamophobic or anti Arab are often not challenged or deleted but criticism of Israel (not Jews) is complained about and very often deleted.
The double standards on here are shocking, and from people who likely don't consider themselves to be racist.