Two short videos showing Israelis protesting against Israel's war against Iran and Israelis protesting against Israel state police

[timeforreflection]

Two short videos showing Israelis protesting against the actions of the Israeli state, and Israelis protesting against Israel state police.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6dJFfliqKQs

I have no doubt in my mind that the Iranian regime is evil.

For me, it is the fact that whatever regime replaces the current regime in Iran is an unknown so we cannot say with any certainty if toppling the current regime would lead to a more safe or less safe Iran, Middle East or world.

@SharonEllis must have a crystal ball to be so certain when history has shown more often than not, regime change by outside military force ends up making the country and region less safe for civilians, especially women.

I hope you include Iran as an aggressor in this war. For many years they have financed and armed their proxies not only in the ME (Hamas, Hizbollah, Houtis) but also sleeper cells elsewhere in the world as has been witnessed by terrorist attacks in North America, Australia, Europe and the UK.

I am astounded that your posts are allowed to stand to be honest. When you say 10s of 1000s are you referring to January? Because the UK gov website doesn't agree with you.

I hope that this is a respectul enough way to express it.

Ask any Iranian dissident and they will tell you the people in charge of of their own country are religious lunatics. They are fanatical extremists. What are you trying to achieve with these posts?

Why on earth would my posts not stand. The slaughter of 10s of 1000s of Iranians has been researched and documented by reliable experts. Its the nature of such a brutal regime that we will never know the true number but noone credible denies it.

What are you trying to achieve with your posts?

It seems that the fact that your posts are not being deleted you think you have free rein to say whatever you want. I am not engaging with you any more, I don't have the patience, sorry.

Oh my goodness, this is just shocking, but I will bite. Link one single "reliable expert" who came up with those figures for January. Just one. If it is the source which will not say who funds it and will not say how it got its information (how it managed to compile 30000 in two days from outside Iran....) then no, it is not a reliable expert. Facts matter.

I am interested in your multiple expert sources on the death toll of tens of thousands. I went searching for sources recently and couldn’t find any numbers that I’d call reliable. I did find many caveats that since Iran has imposed a complete information and internet blackout, it is difficult to get reliable figures. If you could share them, I would appreciate it! Maybe like in WWII a courier snuck across the border with intel?

This is an Iranian academic - SharonEllis will tell you that he is a religious fanatic who is a regime supporter - but I think it is worth listening to every word as we will all be affected by the outcome of what is going on right now in the ME

I thought you weren't engaging with me ??

You have no idea what I would say. About anything.

I read this message after saying that I didn't want to engage hence the "I will bite".

I will engage on this point as I think you are talking tosh and it is important to push back on it.

In relation to anything else I'd rather not engage because I think you are being intentionally inflammatory.

So what do you think of the Iranian pov in the video?

I couldn’t watch it without signing in and I refuse to create an account on YouTube because of privacy concerns. So I can’t watch it.

I value your opinion as well as OP’s. I think it is best to get multiple points of view.

You don't have to sign in. Go into "incognito mode" and copy and paste the link and when it asks you to sign in, scroll down and press the "reject all" button, you will be able to then watch it.

You asked me for links upthread. There are other Iranian academics including women (if that makes a difference for you) who are brave enough to be interviewed, and easy to find on youtube once you watch one of these. There are also home videos by westerners who have married Iranian men and women easy to find.

It is a lot more complex (and interesting) than "they are evil". There are many who are highly regarded Iranian scholars in the academic world, with PHDs in philosophy, political science, democracy etc who do not want US intervention or to be bombed.

Yes it's allowed to call the IRGC religious lunatics.

They are proscribed terrorists in the EU and many other countries, if not the UK yet.

The IRGC murdered thousands of their own people - even their own figures admit to over 3,000 killed in a few days. It is because they have killed them and ripped their lives apart that I refer to them as religious lunatics. They are religious and they are lunatics unless you think slaughtering your own people is a rational response to internal protests.

Exactly. You have to have lost your moral moorings to think the behaviour of the theocratic leadership of Iran is anything other than violently extreme . They are self evidently religious.

The UK has not proscribed them terrorists and innocent Iranians are being killed but you think it is okay to say they are "religious lunatics"? I am amazed that your posts are allowed to stand.

They did not say they killed 3117, they said that most of the 3117 were killed by rioters with firearms and other weapons, that innocent people and hundreds of police were killed by armed rioters. This is why I think you are being disingenuous - you can believe or not believe what they say, but endlessly misquoting them is not okay.

I don't think it's ok that they killed thousands of their own people just for protesting, no.

Where is the evidence most of the rioters had handguns?

Did the women and children who got killed have handguns too?

It's ridiculous to try to defend a regime that kills their own civilians just for the "crime" of protesting.

They have not said they killed thousands of their own people.

You are endlessly misquoting.

They said that the rioters killed and that only rioters who were violent and causing harm and damage were arrested and punished. They said the innocent people including women and children who got killed were either killed by the rioters or by crossfire, when the rioters were being suppressed. They said that no protesters were killed for protesting, and in fact the government announced measures to meet the economic concerns.

Believe or don't believe, but don't misquote.

If rioters in the UK had firearms and were shooting at the police and innocent bystanders, what would happen? What would happen in the US and in Israel?

By all means say that you support Iran being bombed. Just stop the misquoting.

Facts matter.

Absolutely correct about the PHDs, Iran has one of the most highly educated populations in the World and is usually in the Top 5 countries with the highest IQs.

You are right that it is far more complex that "Iran bad". Thankfully Gen Z are less susceptible to propaganda as due to the Internet their worlds are a lot smaller and they know and interact with Iranians.

Vs Hegseth and Trump, both of whom act like they barely graduated from school.

Re Iranian PHDs these jokes, that were trending the other day.

Images didn't attach.

I cannot engage with you anymore because I won't debate with someone who denies the reality of what the IRGC did to their own civilians in the early part of this year. Putting the blame on them not where it rightly lies.

This is a reason why the IRGC should be classified as a terrorist organisation in the UK as well as the EU, Australia US, Canada, Sweden etc.

So that it will become an offence for people to openly support them.

Absolutely correct. As for the general population of Iran holding firearms while living under a rigid religious theocracy, this beggars belief.

Ok I suggest we stop engaging with this nonsense. Everyone knows the Islamic Republic is one of the worst offenders in terms of human rights in the world, utterly brutal in its repression of dissent, and highly sophisticated in its propaganda & terrorist machine, lapped up by useful idiots all around the world maybe, but that doesnt alter the facts. Yes Iranians are intelligent, sophisticated and highly educated. Noone has said otherwise and anyone who is familiar with Iran before the revilution, the Iranian opposition now, and the people of the diaspora is well aware of that.

I asked you to stop misquoting.

And now I ask you to stop gaslighting, because I am neither supporting nor not supporting, I am saying stop starting geopolitical wars and pretending you care about the people.

If you don't want to engage I'd welcome that, I find your posts disgraceful.