Two short videos showing Israelis protesting against Israel's war against Iran and Israelis protesting against Israel state police

[timeforreflection]

Two short videos showing Israelis protesting against the actions of the Israeli state, and Israelis protesting against Israel state police.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6dJFfliqKQs

What I am saying is that we have been told that Iran is bad and there has been a lot of spin for 40 years... coming from the same countries now invading, and Netanyahu has recently told us that what is happening now is 40 years in the making (according to Jeffrey Sachs). There have been a lot of commentators from inside Iran saying that what the west is saying is a crock. They are there for all who have eyes to see, they seem to me to be calm, principled, educated people. And they are saying that what we have been told is a crock.

We know that our domestic policy is very influenced by big business.

So if you don't agree with Iran being attacked, take that thought to its logical conclusion and work out why it is being attacked, and whether it is possible that some of what we have been told for the last 40 years is in fact spin to justify the attacks. Watch the people I have referred to above and hear what they say, they are easy to find.

Either way, I agree with you that we shouldn't be attacking.

I will dig out some links tomorrow and post.

Could you list off which countries in the world you think are de facto democracies and why?

You have very strong opinions. Are you talking about Jan 2026 when you refer to 10s of 1000s? Because the UK government wasn't making these black and white claims last time I looked. Anything over 3-4K came from a rights organisation in the US who won't tell anyone where its information came from or who funds it. So if you are quoting them it would be more correct and clearer to say "x organisation tells us that 10s of 1000s of ordinary Iranians have been ..."

Just Google it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

Sorry, I meant many people think our domestic and foreign policy is heavily influenced by big business. I was too late to edit.

That isn't what I asked - I asked them if in fact these countries are governed in accordance with democratic values, de facto.
The countries you refer to, do you think that the views of the majority are taken into consideration most of the time? I really don't think so. Most people care about housing, welfare, education, transparency, fair taxing of businesses, accountability, etc etc etc.

According to the ranking done in 2024, Iran scored 154th out of 167 countries in total and was, not surprisingly classified as an Authoritarian regime.

The US scored 28th out of 167 countries (flawed democracy).

Israel scored 31st (also flawed democracy).

The UK scored 17th (full democracy, yay!)

Methodology

As described in the report, the Democracy Index produces a weighted average based on the answers to 60 questions, or indicators, each one with either two or three permitted answers. Most answers are experts' assessments. Some answers are provided by public-opinion surveys from the respective countries. In the case of countries for which survey results are missing, survey results for similar countries and expert assessments are used in order to fill in gaps.

The questions are grouped into five categories:

• electoral process and pluralism (12 indicators)
• functioning of government (14 indicators)
• political participation (9 indicators)
• political culture (8 indicators)
• civil liberties (17 indicators)

Yes, but read my reply to your post above.
It is hilarious (not) that you think that we actually have a functioning democracy in the uk, with freedom of speech and the views of the majority taken into consideration in relation to domestic and foreign policy

You would be hard pressed to find a politician who would genuinely agree with you there.

Bottom line - if the US and Israel win against Iran it will be disastrous for all of us.

That isn't what I asked about as I said above. It depends on what you mean by democracy.

Edited: But I am interested in what lies behind the Democracy Index and the funding.

It's not hilarious, the UK is a democracy.

@Twiglets1

Most answers are experts' assessments

These are western experts, presumably, and the problem we have is that half the world don't agree with them

Some answers are provided by public-opinion surveys from the respective countries. In the case of countries for which survey results are missing, survey results for similar countries and expert assessments are used in order to fill in gaps.

The surveys I have seen from "not democratic" countries generally take a sample of around 0.07 to send request out to and even if only a few reply will take that; or on a self selected group, so the answers are nowhere near reliable. I am not saying right or wrong, but nowhere near reliable. And who decides which is a "similar" country?

I do think it is interesting that the UK is seen as more democratic than Isreal and US. Though even as I write that (as someone from the UK) I can't help wry laughter!! Aren't most western democracies failing states now?

Do you you think the views of the majority are given their correct weight in determining domestic and foreign policy?

The entire western world for a start.

I'm from the UK too and have no problem accepting the UK is a democracy.

On what grounds would you say it isn't? We have free speech, can criticise our government freely, have access to elections, can dress how we want, say what we want etc.

• Full democracies are countries where civil liberties and fundamental political freedoms are not only respected but also reinforced by a political culture conducive to the thriving of democratic principles. These nations have a valid system of governmental checks and balances, an independent judiciary whose decisions are enforced, governments that function adequately, and diverse and independent media. These nations have only limited problems in democratic functioning.
• Flawed democracies are countries where elections are fair and free and basic civil liberties are honoured, but may have issues (e.g. media freedom infringement and minor suppression of political opposition and critics). These countries can have significant faults in other democratic aspects, including an underdeveloped political culture, low levels of participation in politics, and issues in the functioning of governance.
• Hybrid regimes are countries with regular electoral fraud, preventing them from being fair and free democracies. These countries commonly have non-independent judiciaries, widespread corruption, and weak rule of law. Political opponents and the media face harassment and pressure from governments. These countries have a less-developed political culture, lower levels of participation in politics, and more pronounced issues in the functioning of governance compared to flawed democracies.
• Authoritarian regimes are countries where political pluralism is nonexistent or severely limited. These nations are often absolute monarchies or dictatorships and may have some conventional institutions of democracy but with meagre significance. Infringements and abuses of civil liberties are commonplace, elections (if they take place) are not fair or free (especially sham elections), the media is often state-owned or controlled by groups associated with the ruling regime, the judiciary is not independent, and censorship and suppression of governmental criticism are commonplace

Nothing to do with my opinion. Documented assessments of people with a lot more experience and knowledge than you.

Well we can all see where you're coming from. The defeat of the Islamic Republic will make us all safer.

Who is ‘us all’? The attempt to do so certainly isn’t making anyone I know feel safer. Are the bombs dropped on Lebanon and Iran instilling a sense of security to the people there? Do they ‘all’ have blind faith in Trump and Net to make the world a peaceful place?

Unprovoked? How in the hell is it unprovoked? Iran has been attacking Israel through proxies and terrorism for years.

Indeed its a democracy, people protest, as they do in many countries. There will be people for and against the war and those who are unsure if its right but realise that constantly being attacked by Iranian proxy terrorist organisations forces some response.

When protest happened in Iran thousands were slaughtered by the regime.

In Gaza, no protests, Hamas don't entertain that. I recall any brave disentors against Hamas being shot when the ceasefire was announced.

Several were recently executed for protesting against thd government. Young people brave enough to speak up, executed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9mzn7k722o

You might need educating a little. Maybe look up the Iranian Rights organization to see how their citizens are tortured, imprisoned and killed for protesting.

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202603244117

Here you go, some basic details

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Human_Rights

Indeed you can be anti the war but still realise that the regime in Iran is despicable.

Israel does have people both for and against the war. It's wrong to pretend all are gor war or all against, its a democratic state so views vary.