How can anyone be proud to be anti Zionist

[mids2019]

https://www.meforum.org/hitler-antizionism

Hitler was an anti Zionist and instigated the most heinous genocide in world history. A genocide so systematic if caused the world to reflect on itself. Hamas are anti Zionist and produced the worst terrorist massacre per head in history. The September 11th attackers had an anti Zionist agenda. Iran is openly anti Zionist and was prepared to develop a nuclear weapon to reduce Israel to ashes.

We now have Zara Sultana, an MP in this country now claiming to be an anti Zionist? How low can we go as far as racial hatred is concerned?Do these ideologues reflect on what they are actually saying?

I agree, open hatred. Say you don't agree with the war, but anti Israel is pure hatred.

I believe it is fine to be anti Zionist. Lots of Jewish people are. Zionism has been a destructive and now genocidal force. I support Palestinians in their current struggle. I am not anti semitic in the slightest.

I think it's lack of education and anti semitism. It's possible to support Israel's right to exist while also criticising the government's actions.

Anti-Zionist isn’t the same as Anti-Jewish, though. Lots of Jewish people are not Zionists. Lots of Zionists don’t support the Israeli government’s recent actions. There are shades of opinions that are more subtle than “Hitler was anti-Zionist, so if you agree with anti-Zionism you are the same as Hitler.”

I think you might be spoiling for a fight.

One definition of Zionism is simply support for the establishment of the state of Israel. So we have a British MP openly stating she wants the eradication of another state, I don't see the ambiguity in thus personally. It's simply scary seeing someone who wishes to lead a political party in this country to hold such anti semitic views and so openly. We as a country are not anti Israel or anti Jew and we should brave enough to shout down those that hold such views. As people quite rightly call out Tomy Robisnson so we should with Zara.

One definition of Zionism is simply support for the establishment of the state of Israel.

That is not the definition of Zionism. As a Jewish woman, I know for a fact that Zionism is much more than this sound bite.

I don’t think you’re posting in good faith.

You are deliberately conflating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

You are brazenly comparing an MP to Adolf Hitler.
That is as problematic as Danny Dannon calling Francesca Albanese a witch at the UN.

I agree OP. Replace Israel with any other country and it seems absurd.

People disagree with the actions of many other countries - Russia, USA, China etc - but never feel the need to say that any of these countries shouldn’t exist in the first place.

And for those on the left who like to use the ‘anti colonialism’ argument against Israel, I’m waiting with bated breath for them to argue that Australia or New Zealand shouldn’t exist.

And yeah, it’s all just a massive coincidence that the one country anti Zionists think shouldn’t exist is the world’s one majority Jewish state. And conveniently, they’ve always got a vehemently anti-Zionist Jewish best friend / colleague / politician to invoke to prove that they’re not at all anti Semitic.

Yeah, I'm Jewish and think it's a gross oversimplification to say 'Well Hitler was anti Zionist so if you're anti Zionist you're just like Hitler'. And pretty offensive to anti Zionist Jews.

I don't think I'm an anti zionist personally, but fervent Zionists would probably say I am... and some fervent anti Zionists would probably call me a Zionist. So it's not a straightforward thing, largely as people can't really agree on what either term means .

Jewish Voice for Peace approach to Zionism
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/

excerpt from it
What is anti-Zionism?
”Anti-Zionism” is a loose term referring to criticism of the current policies of the Israeli state, and/or moral, ethical, or religious criticism of the idea of a Jewish nation-state. There has been debate, criticism and opposition to Zionism within Jewish thought for as long as it has existed. Jewish anti-Zionists span a political and religious spectrum, from religious and secular progressives who view opposition to Zionism as an anti-racist praxis, to ultra-Orthodox Jews who oppose Jewish dominion until the time of the Messiah, to anarchist Jews who oppose the very concept of nation-states, Jewish or otherwise. There are also many non-Jewish anti-Zionists whose perspectives may be informed by moral criticism of the policies of the Israeli government, problems with the impact of Zionist thinking in Israel on non-Jewish residents, and/or a criticism of ethno-nationalism more broadly. Many Palestinians take anti-Zionist positions or identify as anti-Zionist because of the current and historical practices of the Israeli state.
Criticism of Zionism is not to be conflated with antisemitism. States such as Israel and the United States are openly criticized in public life, and their political beliefs and policies are subject to critical debate, in accord with our basic First Amendment rights.
For more on the history of Jewish alternatives to Zionism, please see this blog post by former JVP staffer Ben Lorber.
For more on the problems of conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism, please see this op-ed by NY Times columnist Michelle Goldberg.
For more on criticisms of Zionism, please see these excerpts from “Zionism from the Standpoint of its Victims” by Edward Said.

I'll let my anti-Zionist Jewish parents (one of whom was born/grew up in Israel) know what you think, I'm sure they'll rush to change their minds now they know you think they're just like Hitler 👍

I’m not one for reporting threads, but I have this one. The tone is quite simply offensive.

Haavara Agreement OP.
https://mronline.org/2024/06/28/the-treachery-of-the-nazi-zionist-alliance/

Hitler was also a vegetarian. And Sultana is one too! It’s all coming together!

Opinions like the OPs accusing Anti-Zionists of being similar to Hitler are not only untrue but they are a major part of accusations that are speed running young Americans straight into the arms of influencers like Nick Fuentes (an open admirer of Hitler with millions of followers).

You are playing an extremely dangerous game, this isn't the left, who are now largely sitting back and watching the right fight it out.

Important Poll from America by a pollster (on the right) that reaches voters other pollsters don't and is ironically also currently being attacked as being "antisemitic":

https://www.bigdatapoll.com/blog/poll-sympathy-for-israel-falls-to-historic-low-among-us-voters/

"White Evangelical voters 18-29 yrs old by a 13pt margin say what Israel is doing in Gaza amounts to Genocide; ages 30-44 agree by 11pts. All nonwhite Evangelical voting age groups also agree.
The Overton window has shifted and name-calling won't stop it."

I agree with this

💯

Does it sound absurd? Are the people who want a United Ireland accused of wanting to wipe NI out of existence? Is there a lot of handwringing and name calling directed towards them? Where is all the wailing about how Republicans think NI doesn't have the right to exist? In Ireland and NI we have loads of politicians that think another state 'doesn't have the right to exist' if that's the way people want to phrase it. There is no gnashing of teeth over this, it is seen as a valid political stance.

have New Zealand or Australia recently killed 20,000 children, I think not, maybe why they are not being criticised in the same manner as Israel

”Anti-Zionism” is a loose term referring to criticism of the current policies of the Israeli state, and/or moral, ethical, or religious criticism of the idea of a Jewish nation-state.

Why can't you criticise the policies of the Israeli state ?

Zionism is the belief in the existence of the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland. In no way does it mean to the exclusion of other races etc.

Almost all Jews are zionists. I don’t believe people who come on here and claim to be Jewish and not zionists in that they don’t believe in the state of Israel and I certainly don’t believe the person claiming to have anti Zionist parents living in Israel.

Zionism however absolutely doesn’t mean that if you are a Zionist you support the actions of the government. There are huge numbers of Israelis who deplore the current regime.

I am Zionist and I’m an even stronger Zionist now that it’s acceptable to be anti semitic in the UK and o think it’s probably the only place for the future of my children now that anti semitism is beyond control across much of the world

However I absolutely detest Netanyahu and how he has managed the war and have huge sympathy for the ordinary Palestinians and the hideous situation they’re in.

Almost all Jews are zionists.
There has never been a global Jewish poll on that. The few polls done often have very small sample sizes, are only done in the US or UK, and frequently they don’t ask any questions using the word Zionism.

It is not known how popular Zionism is amongst all Jews. It’s one of those things that many nonJews/Zionist Jews assume to be the case, and then presume to speak for all Jews on.

I didn't say they lived in Israel, if you mean me. They used to. They don't now.

you will find the vast majority of Jews are Zionist in the broadest sense that they believe in the existence of the state of Israel. Are you actually Jewish? You know why most believe in Israel as a principle? It’s because we all know that if things get too bad in the diaspora there’s one place in the world we can go where we won’t feel unwelcome

Thankyou for putting into words what I was too furious to articulate. Coming from a Jewish woman this should speak volumes but it wont. Anti semitism and anti zionism are 2 totally different things. The original post is completely ignorant. The state of Israel was not even created till 1948, How can Hitler have been a god forsaken anti zionist?