Israel rescues four hostages alive from Gaza who were captured by Hamas at Nova music festival on October 7 - including girl seen kidnapped on back of motorbike

[keenforhelp]

Well done Israel - fantastic, wonderful news
xxx

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508615/Israel-rescues-four-hostages-alive-Gaza-Noa-Argamani-motorbike.html

And yet you typed one!

Well if there are no international journalists or independent observers, what other number would we believe?

Not to your post! But nice try!

You do have the option of simply admitting we don't have an accurate figure or the ability to get one. Uncritically accepting and repeating the numbers given by Hamas is a choice. Some of us make better ones.

You addressed what I wrote though. I would say nice try, but it's not.

You believe and repeat the Hamas terrorist propaganda one just because that's the number available?

Indeed! Let's pretend that it's not 34000 then... just for a second. What number do you think it is? How many women and children and innocent men have IDF killed since October? You keep disputing the numbers... so what are they?

I'm sure they do, and I don't defend that. Do you defend IDF killing innocent men, women and children?

So first of all you couldn't see the terrorist propaganda being posted, and now you're defending the posting of it.

Ok, ignore my question then, or deflect, again!

No.

Because it's the number accepted and reported internationally. I choose to accept the number that is accepted internationally. Are you accusing the likes of BBC of spreading terrorist propaganda?

You keep disputing the numbers... so what are they?

I don't pretend to know the numbers. How could I, when Hamas is the only source?

Your problem is that you don't seem to have understood there is no reliable number. You shouldn't believe anyone, because there's no body or institution capable of giving an accurate assessment. If someone asks you how many people have been killed in Gaza and who was responsible for those deaths, your answer should be that you don't know.

Thank you!

Are you accusing the likes of BBC of spreading terrorist propaganda?

The BBC does at least tend to qualify the numbers with "Hamas claims that..."

I'm actually quite surprised at how hard you're doubling down on defending the claims of a terrorist organisation.

How is it accepted internationally? It's certainly reported internationally that Hamas have made these claims, because they have. This is not the same as acceptance.

Indeed... perhaps we should let more international journalists and observers in, so that there can be no denial or exaggerating on either side? I'm all for that! Are you?

actually the firefight in BlackHawkDown was the escape and rescue and was a battle to get out

in this case, the IDF bombed a corridor for the escape. hence the heavier death toll

US wouldnt do such a thing

I think you'll find I didn't use "idiots". 🧐

No, it was a find and capture mission that went wrong when their chopper was shot down.

Hence, Black Hawk Down (Black chopper).

A separate mission was launched to extract. But again, very different factors involved I that, including terrain, enemy, etc.

Personally I'd have no issue with letting them in. But it's not immediately obvious why you think Hamas is going to give them access and, well, not unalive them so that they can provide evidence to the world that Sinwar and co are full of shit.

It's not accepted internationally. But is reported internationally.

Massive difference.

BBC and others will caveat it with "accordingto the Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry".

Again, that's very different to what someone posters are doing.

Your response to "useful idiocy' was:

"That will account for some people"

definition of idiocy:

"from idiot, probably on the pattern of pairs such as lunatic, lunacy"

besides. I didn't actually say YOU called people idiots. I said in response to you:

"Calling people idiots for having a different opinion to yours is goady/trolling and not deserving of a reply."