Israel rescues four hostages alive from Gaza who were captured by Hamas at Nova music festival on October 7 - including girl seen kidnapped on back of motorbike

[keenforhelp]

Well done Israel - fantastic, wonderful news
xxx

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508615/Israel-rescues-four-hostages-alive-Gaza-Noa-Argamani-motorbike.html

Here's another example of unverified information directly from Hamas being stated as fact - this thing about three dead hostages.

Of course there is propaganda from both sides. 🤦‍♀️

This is such basic stuff.

FWIW, they actually provided the names of the dead in this case.

IDF doesnt track civilians killed. So Gaza health is best estimate

Patronising much? I get my information from independent news sources I trust, I'm not on twitter or insta I'm pretty old school.

So whose figures and what news agencies should we trust? You are discrediting a lot without offering an alternative?

The people celebrating these hostages' rescue don't all join together in one force, you know. They are all independent thinkers and do not have a planned agenda.

That's your problem.

Oh dear god. I'm discrediting a proscribed terrorist organisation. You should too.

I don't get easily offended but this did it for me. This is an insult to every single victim of the Holocaust.

I'll await your explanation of how what I said relates to the Holocaust in any way.

There's absolutely Israeli propaganda too.

And really, I'm playing nicely here. Giving the Hamas Propaganda Regurgitation Posse notice that every time they do it, it's going to be pointed out.

But what about people who disagree with your views?

Can you say the same for them?

Yes, and recognise they're trying to argue using the False Dilemma Fallacy which is meant to make you think there's only two choices.

@Bowib thank you for that link. Actually seeing a poster coming down for a positive reason is quite something after all this time, and all the people pulling them down and defacing them.

You are discrediting anyone reporting on Gaza and from Gaza because all the news I get comes from independent news agencies, you have pointed out that they are getting their figures from Hamas so who is left to get our news from?

Your comments on people being useful idiots and spreading terrorist propaganda are highly offensive.

It was a devil advocate type comment which has clearly highlighted the double standards at work here.

They're entirely accurate. Your subjective opinion on what constitutes offensive doesn't affect that.

So you agree a ceasefire is the best way forward? There is no them or us.

And you agree you don’t have all the information required to say whether the hostage rescue did or did not break the law, but that it may have done.

Andrew Fox is estimating civilian caualties in Gaza at under ten thousand, if we're talking numbers.
I will obviously caveat this by saying I have no idea if he's correct or not:

https://x.com/Mr_Andrew_Fox/status/1800592421245301148

Double standard.

"useful idiot" is an actual thing. It's not some phrase myself or anyone else on here has made up.

Didn't you post that because (I paraphrase you) not every Palestinian was dead, it can't be a genocide? Yes or no?
Therefore, you deem something to be a genocide only if every single person of that ethnicity/belief/creed is dead. Your post implies this.
By the way, the Holocaust has a huge impact on my family.

Laughable that you complain about double standards when criticism of Hamas' actions during the hostage release had to be extracted from you. And when you repeatedly tried to excuse other posters leaving Hamas out of their criticisms because apparently it can be assumed.

But yeah, it doesn't matter whether you think something is offensive. Facts aren't impacted by your feelz.

I will leave this here.
Gaza civilian deaths in Israel's hostage raid may be war crimes, UN says | Reuters

It is a highly offensive slur which could be easily applied to anyone who is speaking out against a cause you disagree with. It aims to shut down discussion of the actual issue by discrediting the person with a view you don’t agree with. It is lazy.

"So you agree a ceasefire is the best way forward?"

Not at the present time, no. Military history shows ceasefires at wrong time prolongs conflict.

"There is no them or us."

Conflict is currently active, so yes there is.

"And you agree you don’t have all the information required to say whether the hostage rescue did or did not break the law, but that it may have done."

Which law do you specifically think was broken?

Didn't you post that because (I paraphrase you) not every Palestinian was dead, it can't be a genocide? Yes or no?
Therefore, you deem something to be a genocide only if every single person of that ethnicity/belief/creed is dead. Your post implies this.
By the way, the Holocaust has a huge impact on my family.

I said that the death rate (disputed, at that) in no way indicates a genocide (as tragic as any civilian deaths in conflict always are).

Beyond that is entirely just stuff you've said. And now you've mentioned the Holocaust unprompted for a second time.