Israel rescues four hostages alive from Gaza who were captured by Hamas at Nova music festival on October 7 - including girl seen kidnapped on back of motorbike

[keenforhelp]

Well done Israel - fantastic, wonderful news
xxx

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508615/Israel-rescues-four-hostages-alive-Gaza-Noa-Argamani-motorbike.html

If Israel are concerned the number of casualties is being inflamed, couldn’t they let somebody independent in to check what’s going on? Or would that be too risky as then they would know what they are really up to, which may be much worse than we know.

The figure was released according to the Gaza Health Ministry like every other figure released since the beginning of this conflict. Why won't Israel let in organisations to verify these figures? Until they are verified it is not propaganda because you or I or anyone else can not know. We can just as easily say any figures released by isreal are isreal government propaganda

Bravo.

This is an insult to every single victim of the Holocaust.

No it isn't, but it is offensive and very bad taste to invoke the Holocaust in this way.

Yes and people frequently do shout "HASBARA!!!" at anyone quoting figures from Israel. Because people are more comfortable believing the numbers coming from a terrorist organisation than the ones being provided by Israel.

933 posts on this thread since 8th June. Must be one of the fastest moving threads in CITME history.

Like an ebbing and flowing of a tide.

No, it IS propaganda since figures come from the Gaza Ministry of Health, i.e., Hamas.

It's not an either/or situation as you present it which is the False Dilemma Fallacy. There is a third option here 👇

You DON'T have to accept ANY figures from ANYBODY during an ACTIVE conflict.

That sounds a bit threatening.

So by that token everything isreal reports is also propaganda because none of it can be independently verified. I would love if independent journalists could get in there and report on things properly so none of us have to rely on the IDF or Hamas for our information.

Those are your only two choices, I'm afraid. I haven't been on this forum before this thread so I don't know what you're used to getting away with, but that's immaterial really. It won't be happening any more.
Used to getting away with? Seriously you haven't been on this thread before but feel you can make those statements?

I thought so too. Seems like we are being pulled into line by who though?

Until they are verified, you think what is put out by Hamas, a proscribed terrorist organisation, isn't propaganda?

Seriously?

You are going to defend the claim that 274 people were killed during a massive battle with Hamas, but they were all civilians, no Hamas terrorists, and that every single one of them was killed by Israel, not a single stray bullet from Hamas or misfired RPG? The only person killed by Hamas was an Israeli soldier?

You don't suspect that might be propaganda simply because of the lack of verification?

No, it IS propaganda since figures come from the Gaza Ministry of Health, i.e., Hamas.
Don't agree. It is the figure we have until it can be independently verified.

We can of course all start including the caveat (according to the Gaza Health Ministry) if that is more palatable for people.

What memo ?

I was being ridiculous.

It's clearly a propaganda figure from a terrorist organisation who has a human sacrifice ideology.

And it should be treated with massive caution.

But, aye, put the caveat in your posts at all times when you want to refer to that figure.

Or, better yet, don't fall into the False Dilemma Fallacy again by presenting the issue as between one of two options.

It's not. 🤷‍♂️

"Palatable"?

People should start engaging their brains when looking at information on the internet. It is a fairly basic skill to look at the source and then to consider whether it is likely to be reliable before posting it as fact. People should certainly be more cautious, and not because it would be more palatable for other users, but because spreading terrorist propaganda as fact aids terrorists.

I didn't say any of that!

You don't suspect that might be propaganda simply because of the lack of verification?
As I said I would love proper verification no one wants to have to rely on the Gaza Health Ministry for this information. You would have to wonder why the Israeli government won't let in independent investigations or journalists

not sure you are getting it.

the black hawk down escape was a bloodbath with hundreds rescued and thousands of troops

IDF just blew apart city blocks to extract 4 people killing another 3 hostages in the process

indiscriminate death as usual

Yes, you were. Trying to imply this is all some big conspiracy where we're all ganging up against you is incredibly ridiculous and offensive.

It's fully possible for multiple people to think that spreading unverified information from a terrorist organisation and pretending it is fact is an incredibly dangerous thing to be doing.

I was more than offended. In fact I found it deeply upsetting that the poster could mention the Holocaust in this manner and possibly, in a very subtle way, imply that the Holocaust was not a genocide (by saying that if we apply a certain logic).

There is NO logic that the Holocaust was not a genocide. Impossible to do this.

You don't have to rely on any figures from anyone at all.

That's for after the war.

You asked for an example where people are spreading terrorist propaganda. That is my example.

You go on to say that Hamas figures aren't propaganda.

So you don't think the example that I posted about the hostage rescue counts as repeating terrorist propaganda?

Absolutely we should all be more careful and make sure we don’t make useful idiots of ourselves!

Remember when reading information released by the Israeli government that their leader has been accused of fraud, that the ICC are seeking an arrest warrant for him and that the state of Israel is being investigated by the ICJ with regards to genocide.

There is propaganda from both sides.