Israel rescues four hostages alive from Gaza who were captured by Hamas at Nova music festival on October 7 - including girl seen kidnapped on back of motorbike

[keenforhelp]

Well done Israel - fantastic, wonderful news
xxx

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508615/Israel-rescues-four-hostages-alive-Gaza-Noa-Argamani-motorbike.html

How many journalists or international observers have been killed by IDF?

Dunno, but evidently not enough to deter you from suggesting they be allowed more access to the war zone in Gaza.

Why have you raised that in response to a point about what incentive Hamas would cooperate? I'm going to be kind and assume it wasn't just some half arsed whataboutery on your part.

You keep going on about Hamas propaganda. The majority of us are quoting from main stream news agencies so I assume you are also including them as quoting from Hamas propaganda? The way you are accusing people here is suggesting we are hearing it direct from the source which is inflammatory and untrue. You don't trust the figures plenty of other people do. Until they can be independently verified none of us can know for sure so stop accusing people of terrorist propaganda

You need to specifically point out where people are quoting terrorist propaganda because your accusations is pretty serious

https://x.com/hilzfuld/status/1799883147552907357?s=46
I know we have derailed far from the og post, but it’s the one time the taking down of the bring them home posters fill me with joy, yet another great video of the posters of the ones rescued being taken down, this time in the airport.

This data might be of interest to you.

Macdonald-Laurier Institute

War is terribly tragic, but #Israel has implemented more precautions to prevent civilian harm than any military in history.

Allegations of genocide are utterly misplaced.

https://x.com/MLInstitute/status/1800596359361532122

https://time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

Yes @HelenHen you are correct. I didn’t mention that ICC are seeking warrants for Hamas leaders because nobody is claiming they haven’t broken the law.

Tell you what, if people are so concerned that Hamas are getting an upper hand here because of all the civilian deaths, here is an idea, how about they put pressure on the Israeli government to stop killing people and agree to a ceasefire.

Because Israeli government don’t seem to want to do that, they would rather seek to control the narrative in a way which seeks to minimise the suffering of people in Gaza, while portraying this as an existential fight to garner support, and trying to discredit anyone who disagrees with them by labelling them as antisemitic or useful idiots, or whatever is the chosen slur of that time.

The problem here is not empathy for innocent civilians, the problem is that they are getting killed in the first place. This problem is caused by Hamas and the Israeli government, who are both treating people, their own and the others side, like objects that are being moved around on a mass scale board game. And this is a result of historic trauma and unfairness.

I already have given specific examples. Scroll up and try reading them, they're only a few posts back.

Lol???

Yes so until the figures are independently verified it is not propaganda is it?

Unfortunately, some of you apparently aren't able to appreciate the distinction between eg the BBC reporting what Hamas have said and reporting something as truth. That makes you and all the other people who do it gullible propagada swallowers.

Seems to be a new tactic on this thread to start shouting down posters as quoting terrorist propaganda. Why is that? We are using the same news sources we have always used but suddenly so many of you have an issue with it and we are gullible propaganda swallowers. Strange

Yes @HelenHen you are correct. I didn’t mention that ICC are seeking warrants for Hamas leaders because nobody is claiming they haven’t broken the law.

That still doesn't tell us why you felt people's views on the ICC were relevant in a thread about a rescue they haven't made any comment on.

We are using the same news sources we have always used

And if that source is Hamas, doesn't that make you think twice?

@Dulra Here you go, you can't deny you've seen this one posted on MN.

It's terrorist propaganda. It doesn't make any sense for it to be true. Yet people are repeating it as fact.

But too many people are cutting off the media caveat of "according to the Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry".

Important caveat to use at ALL times.

If one parrots "34,000 killed!" without that, I'm afraid those people are pushing Hamas propaganda since that figure comes from....Hamas.

It is propaganda, yes. Until and unless you understand this, you're not going to get very far.

Your choices are to either be clear that we don't know the accurate casualty figures and that what Hamas claim isn't evidence, or you will be a credulous believer in propaganda. Those are your only two choices, I'm afraid. I haven't been on this forum before this thread so I don't know what you're used to getting away with, but that's immaterial really. It won't be happening any more.

Why is that, do you think? I will give you a clue: the Israeli government has banned any international journalists from Gaza and has targeted Palestinian journalists from the first day of their "operations".
This is well documented, by the way.
Why would they do that?
War reporting has always been important.
Freedom of the press is a cornerstone for any democracy, especially for the only one in the ME. Do you agree?

We don’t have all the facts of the hostage situation so we can’t clearly say one way or another whether either side have committed crimes, but based on what is known some experts believe the law may have been broken.

We're onto 'It's Israel's fault that I'm uncritically repeating terrorist propaganda"

Who are you exactly accusing of repeating terrorist propaganda @noblegiraffe

Eh?

Hamas committed the original crime and perpetuated it by holding these poor people since October.

Frankly unbelievable comments wafting around.

No, we've been saying that people need to be careful with what they choose to share on here since October. We've always asked people to stop believing everything Hamas says and to stop claiming it as the truth. People have just been ignoring us all along. Remember al-Ahli hospital and the 800 dead within 30 minutes of the explosion happening? We begged people to stop sharing unverified claims but they kept going anyway. And then when it was clear that it wasn't Israel's fault it turned to "oh, well, you can't blame us for believing it after how Israel has been behaving".