Israel rescues four hostages alive from Gaza who were captured by Hamas at Nova music festival on October 7 - including girl seen kidnapped on back of motorbike

[keenforhelp]

Well done Israel - fantastic, wonderful news
xxx

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508615/Israel-rescues-four-hostages-alive-Gaza-Noa-Argamani-motorbike.html

Mumsnet already deleted their accusation of it yesterday so it is obviously against talk guidelines

May I direct you towards the silent 'thanks' button? It will keep the thread tidier and make it easier to follow, rather than quoting a big post with a one word response. I believe that is why the 'thanks' button is there

Before this thread is full, I will say I think it's a pity that there couldn't have been one space for those happy that the four hostages were home safely, could discuss it without massive derailment and arguments.

Oh, you have fallen into the False Dilemma Fallacy. There is no us or them.

I am not a legal expert but I trust the information provided by the UN who have said war crimes may have been committed and mentioned the principles of distinction, proportionality and precaution.

I have no reason to trust your interpretation of the issue. I do now know your level of legal expertise (I assume you don’t work for the UN or similar?) and it is clear you have a bias.

I also have no interest of your interpretation of the issue which is presented as thought it should be taken as fact because you can copy and paste from the IHL website, and when there isn’t enough information to decide one way or the other.

@Auvergne63 Imagine growing up in a family where 600 were slaughtered at Auschwitz, where you learn that a grandparent was forced to watch a parent walk into a gas chamber on your Bat mitzvah?

Imagine how that person (me) feels when you reference the Holocaust in the manner that you did. Imagine how many others too?

It's pretty interesting how many people genuinely seem to think that they've got to accept the Hamas numbers in the absence of anything else. I didn't know that was a thing until today.

Obviously knew some people are just that naive, and others would accept them because they actively support Hamas. But this thread is the first time I've seen people make the argument that they have to go with Hamas because just not knowing isn't an option. Wondering now if it's common.

Do you understand that you can get news that appears to be reliable, that there was a hostage rescue mission that ended in a battle with Hamas in a densely populated area with a large number of civilian casualties without coming onto Mumsnet and posting 'Israel murdered 274 civilians while rescuing those 4 hostages'?

It really is.

Unfortunately, our self appointed moral exemplars just couldn't help themselves.

Yeh, so don't instruct me on what to do.

Listen, if you guys are happy to keep spreading misinformation provided by Hamas then we can't stop you. Clearly, MN think calling that behaviour out is more offensive than spreading misinformation provided by terrorists is. So none of us can prevent you from doing so. Just remember this thread next time you complain about how pro-Israel MN is and how you're all the victims of unfair treatment as claimed earlier on this very thread.

It's pretty interesting how many people genuinely seem to think that they've got to accept the Hamas numbers in the absence of anything else. I didn't know that was a thing until today.

This has puzzled me as well. Surely you just accept that the numbers are an uncertainty, and might remain that way for a long time?

I also don't understand why people want the numbers to be as high as possible, surely you'd hope that the least possible civilians were dead?

And if you're not being naive when spreading unverified information from a terrorist organisation as though it's the truth, then it's being done on purpose? Which is obviously a much scarier reality.

Oh very much so. It's evident that some of them haven't realised that being naive is the kinder of the two explanations for their actions.

I will be glad of the day there is no need to argue about how deaths are counted, because all this is over, and that goes for Palestine or Israel.

Whatever the number of deaths, there have been too many.

I said bravo as I found that post so inspirational. It just came out.

That's incredibly patronising. The original post has already been deleted.

You wrote and I quote:
"just a genocidal state that is also somehow so inefficient that in eight months most of the over half a million residents are still living?
I have read and re read your post and I can't find where you said the death rate (disputed, at that) in no way indicates a genocide.
Please, point me where you said this.
I am not allowed to mention the Holocaust when my family were the victim of it?
Their suffering must not be spoken of?

I barely come on this section because it's terrible, but if people are willing to post the 274 figure from Hamas uncritically and it is simply just accepted and even defended when the issues are pointed out, then the West has a major problem on its hands in the propaganda war.

To end, reunited with their families and friends
https://x.com/eylonalevy/status/1799394087210205315?s=46 noa
https://x.com/shmuelreichman/status/1799831108508602522?s=46 almog
https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1799846210687353224?s=46 andrey
https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/cousin-describes-hostages-condition-after-miraculous-rescue-syvuc8sh shlomi pictured reunited with his family

To be fair, they're also posting other figures like 374

Most news is independently verified, and they will often state when they're unable to do so. We have no other source... yet we keep seeing images of dead children.

Thank you.

You wrote and I quote:
"just a genocidal state that is also somehow so inefficient that in eight months most of the over half a million residents are still living?
I have read and re read your post and I can't find where you saidthe death rate (disputed, at that) in no way indicates a genocide.

The two statements mean the same thing.
Did you see the actual post I was replying to, btw? It was deranged.

🇮🇱 bring the rest of the hostages home NOW!