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Conflict in the Middle East
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42
Finallyloggedin · 31/05/2024 22:23

@Scirocco agreed, and I think that’s what @ScrollingLeaves post was also saying, if I’ve read it right? That we are all descended from the same people and we should all help each other no matter what. I hope I have got the right end of the stick.

Also I had understood @Kindatired ‘s post to disprove much of what the horrid article said, especially about any attempts to justify killing innocent people. But i may be misunderstanding bits.

I definitely think the arguments he makes in the article are horrible and they have much in common with fundamental Christians and other fundamentalists.

He also comes across as very self satisfied. I wonder what his parents make of him now, they sounded quite nice at the start!

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 31/05/2024 22:55

Finallyloggedin · 31/05/2024 22:23

@Scirocco agreed, and I think that’s what @ScrollingLeaves post was also saying, if I’ve read it right? That we are all descended from the same people and we should all help each other no matter what. I hope I have got the right end of the stick.

Also I had understood @Kindatired ‘s post to disprove much of what the horrid article said, especially about any attempts to justify killing innocent people. But i may be misunderstanding bits.

I definitely think the arguments he makes in the article are horrible and they have much in common with fundamental Christians and other fundamentalists.

He also comes across as very self satisfied. I wonder what his parents make of him now, they sounded quite nice at the start!

Yes, thank you @Finallyloggedin that is right.

That man England had written that article as though he was learned about ancient Jewish scriptures, and cited one 2nd Century Rabbi in particular, which stated even innocents should be killed to help Jews. England used this to back up Israel’s right to be ruthless now.

But, it turns out there were other highly revered Jewish theological scholars saying the opposite. So England is not as learned in theology as he thought.

In particular, one Ben Azai (50 C.E. highly reknowned, and thought of as being like a Saint) ) went beyond saying ‘Love your neighbour as yourself’ as being the most important principle, to say that, as humans, we are all one, because we are the same line as Adam (which means human, not a name). Therefore we are all brothers and sisters and we must help each other.

Finallyloggedin · 31/05/2024 23:07

@ScrollingLeaves thank you for that, it’s amazing how much stretching that guy was doing to make what he wanted to happen the reality!

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Finallyloggedin · 31/05/2024 23:08

Greg J Stoker appealing to the American government: https://x.com/gregjstoker/status/1796600087529029785?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

“You’ll never get politicians to care about +15k murdered children, but you can appeal to their selfish interests in protecting US global interests.

Thought I’d experiment with that rhetoric at city hall as a test run…”

x.com

https://x.com/gregjstoker/status/1796600087529029785?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

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ScrollingLeaves · 31/05/2024 23:28

Finallyloggedin · 31/05/2024 23:08

Greg J Stoker appealing to the American government: https://x.com/gregjstoker/status/1796600087529029785?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

“You’ll never get politicians to care about +15k murdered children, but you can appeal to their selfish interests in protecting US global interests.

Thought I’d experiment with that rhetoric at city hall as a test run…”

Thank you, he is very impressive, has presence and speaks powerfully. It is helpful too that he has a military background as a Ranger during the War on Terror, which will mean certain people who might otherwise not have will respect him. He will not just be seen as long haired lefty who doesn’t understand armies and wars.

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AhNowTed · 04/06/2024 10:18

Finallyloggedin · 04/06/2024 10:01

Another insightful thread by Israeli academic, Ori Goldberg

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1797528483331244253.html

I follow him on X, he's excellent.

Another one I'd like to point out is Maher Mughrabi. He's a journalist in Oz.

He appeared on the Oz version of Question Time (QandA). He's terrific.

x.com/abierkhatib/status/1796259363536994388?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

x.com/abierkhatib/status/1796452404822704352?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

Hope those links work.

Finallyloggedin · 04/06/2024 12:03

Thank you for these links @AhNowTed , I’ve just watched them and I totally agree, this man speaks so much sense, so well. I will try to follow him too.

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Finallyloggedin · 05/06/2024 10:00

The brilliant Gideon Levy: "I was in the cafe in the Tel Aviv museum... a woman came to me & said only one word... traitor. This is the atmosphere [in Israel] right now. Saying the truth is treason. Feeling empathy towards the Palestinians is treason. Showing the suffering in Gaza is treason"

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1798227729453863333?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

x.com

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1798227729453863333?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

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AhNowTed · 05/06/2024 10:15

Finallyloggedin · 05/06/2024 10:00

The brilliant Gideon Levy: "I was in the cafe in the Tel Aviv museum... a woman came to me & said only one word... traitor. This is the atmosphere [in Israel] right now. Saying the truth is treason. Feeling empathy towards the Palestinians is treason. Showing the suffering in Gaza is treason"

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1798227729453863333?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

What he goes on to say, ie don't bother us with dead children, we don't want to know, mirrors the IDF's response to the bombing in Rafah, ie we didn't think about civilians.

The banality of genocide.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2024 14:12

Thank you both, it is very interesting to hear these Israeli views and heartening to see they exist.

Finallyloggedin · 05/06/2024 21:14

“A report by the New York Times revealed that Israel's Ministry of Diaspora Affairs funded a $2 million covert influence campaign to target U.S. lawmakers and the public during the Gaza conflict.

The campaign, executed by Tel Aviv-based Stoic, a political marketing firm, targeted the American public and members of Congress through hundreds of fake accounts on X, Facebook, and Instagram to advocate for continued military funding.

In the process, three fake English-language news sites were set up to support the campaign and bolster support for Israel's actions in Gaza.”

  • Mint Press News via X

I just tried to get onto the NYT website but couldn’t access it to see the original news story. Will keep trying to find it. If anyone subscribes to the NYT, could you possibly post it?

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ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2024 21:48

Finallyloggedin · 05/06/2024 21:14

“A report by the New York Times revealed that Israel's Ministry of Diaspora Affairs funded a $2 million covert influence campaign to target U.S. lawmakers and the public during the Gaza conflict.

The campaign, executed by Tel Aviv-based Stoic, a political marketing firm, targeted the American public and members of Congress through hundreds of fake accounts on X, Facebook, and Instagram to advocate for continued military funding.

In the process, three fake English-language news sites were set up to support the campaign and bolster support for Israel's actions in Gaza.”

  • Mint Press News via X

I just tried to get onto the NYT website but couldn’t access it to see the original news story. Will keep trying to find it. If anyone subscribes to the NYT, could you possibly post it?

You can read an article about this in Haaretz if you put the headline below into archive ph.Israel Secretly Targeted American Lawmakers With Gaza War Influence CampaignIn an attempt to sway global public opinion on the war in Gaza, fake accounts and sites spread pro-Israel and Islamophobic content.The operation was orchestrated by Israel's Diaspora Affairs Ministry and run by a political campaigning firm

It is a long article but here is just the first three paragraphs:
The Israeli government is behind a large-scale influence campaign primarily aimed at Black lawmakers and young progressives in the United States and Canada. The operation, whose existence was first reported by Haaretz in March, was launched after the start of the war in Gaza and was intended to sway certain segments of public opinion on Israel's conduct.

The influence campaign made extensive use of fake websites and social media to promote content that is pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian and anti-Muslim content, as well as disinformation about antisemitism on American campuses, according to an investigation by the Fake Reporter organization, published today.

.The operation was run by an Israeli company that specializes in political campaigns. According to sources and information obtained by Haaretz, the operation was commissioned by Israel's Diaspora Affairs Ministry but carried out by a different party, for fear that its exposure could entangle Israel in a crisis. Among the candidates for the job was the organization Voices of Israel, which received half of its original funding from the Israeli government. Asked for a response to this article, Voices of Israel denied that it was related to the influence campaign exposed.

………. Here is another part about how they tried to influence Black Americans against Palestinians;

Another was the Arab Slave Trade site, which was copied almost entirely from Wikipedia and was aimed at Black Americans, trying to repeat the message that the Arabs had been slave traders in Africa.

Finallyloggedin · 05/06/2024 22:07

Thank you very much @ScrollingLeaves

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ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2024 22:17

It is a good thing Haaretz and the New York Times have written about this or no one would believe it.

Dulra · 06/06/2024 08:26

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2024 22:17

It is a good thing Haaretz and the New York Times have written about this or no one would believe it.

Thanks for sharing the text. I had read the bit I could in the NY times but the full article was behind a paywall

AhNowTed · 06/06/2024 09:07

Bombing schools now.

Dozens killed, including children.

amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jun/06/israel-gaza-war-unrwa-school-hamas-middle-east-idf

ScrollingLeaves · 06/06/2024 11:42

Dulra · 06/06/2024 08:26

Thanks for sharing the text. I had read the bit I could in the NY times but the full article was behind a paywall

My pleasure. To be clear, though, that was only some of the text as I was worried putting it all in might be considered wrong. But if you put the headline into archive ph the whole article, illustrations and links come up.

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Finallyloggedin · 07/06/2024 16:15

A thread by a Jewish anti-zionist journalist, Benjamin Rubinstein, of his ‘top ten’ Jewish people -

https://x.com/benfrubinstein/status/1798968353005908292?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

I find it interesting that many on this list are demonised on these boards as anti Semitic, but they are all in fact Jewish themselves. The conflation between anti Semitism and anti Zionism is extremely misleading, I feel.

x.com

https://x.com/benfrubinstein/status/1798968353005908292?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

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Finallyloggedin · 07/06/2024 16:22

https://x.com/abierkhatib/status/1798996169517121779?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

This is interesting. I have no idea how these things usually work but I know others on here do. Does this seem unusual?

x.com

https://x.com/abierkhatib/status/1798996169517121779?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

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Kindatired · 07/06/2024 18:39

No

SmugglersHaunt · 08/06/2024 00:42

Perhaps Hamas could release the hostages, surrender and stop using their own citizens as human shields then it would all be over.

PearlKoala · 08/06/2024 00:45

SmugglersHaunt · 08/06/2024 00:42

Perhaps Hamas could release the hostages, surrender and stop using their own citizens as human shields then it would all be over.

Really? Isrsel have said that they will stop their decades long occupation, remove the 700,000 settlers that live illegally in Palestine, release everyone they are holding in administrative detention and stop the blockade on Gaza if Hamas release the hostages and surrender? When did Israel say this?

Also I note that you aren't disputing that Israel are committing genocide, you just seem to think it's OK to do it in certain circumstances. We'll stop committing genocide and killing 10s of 1000s of innocent people and maiming 10s of 1000s more if you release the hostages and give up. How on earth are you cool with that?