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Conflict in the Middle East
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42
OP posts:
Finallyloggedin · 25/06/2024 20:12

Alon Mizrahi:

”Two interesting developments in Israel from the recent 24 hours, both directly related to Israel's militarist (read: genocidal) mindset and Netanyahu's policy of forever war/apocalypse:

First, a group of reservists notified the IDF it would not be returning to serve in Gaza, for reasons that include both humanitarian considerations ('I did not understand why they asked us to burn down apartment buildings') and the futility of fighting as regards returning Israel's captives. This is not a big group: only a few dozens signed the letter. And, more importantly, they limit their refusal to Gaza, thus allowing the IDF to use them somewhere else free other soldiers for Gaza. This also comes extremely late in the day, so it is not a huge and dramatic deal. It is, however, a crack in the wall, and a major reason for infighting and instability.

Second, and much bigger, is a decision by the Israeli Supreme Court to declare illegal the special status given to young Haredi (ultraorthodox) kids, which exempted them from otherwise mandatory military service. And this, compared to the tokenistic refusal by the reservists, is a huge deal.

The special arrangement for Haredi Jews goes back to the early 1950s, when Ben Gurion created it to allow ultraorthodox Jews to live in Israel and lot give up their Torah-centered lifestyle.

There are around 1.5 million Haredi Israelis and they are the youngest demographic, meaning they are becoming a bigger percentage of Israeli society (Remember that there are approximately 7 million Jews in Israel in total).

The issue of Haredi military service has been a staple of both secular Ashkenazi politics, and the Ashkenazi religious right. Those groups see the IDF as the center of both Israeli culture, and the source of their elevated status in the Israeli hierarchy.

Just as important, for those two groups, destroying the traditional religious Jewish way of life means the triumph of Zionism over the Golah, which they despised since the very beginning (in their stupidity, they believe they represent a model of Jewish power, as opposed to the weakness of the Jewish diaspora. They have no idea how weak and hysterical they appear to the rest of the world).

Also, in their strategic stupidity, liberal Zionists pushed to make Haredi mobilization a burning issue as Israel is fighting a long and unwinnable war: the result is not going to be tens of thousands of Haredi kids joining the IDF, it is going to be social strife and infighting on an entirely new scale.

You see, there is no way in hell the leaders of the Haredi communities will allow their boys to be recruited. It is not happening: it will be the ruin of all they believe in. And those are actual believers. They are not playing. They will go to war (against the state of Israel) and they will go to jail or leave the country. But they are not joining the IDF.

And so what we're going to see in the near future is an Israel thrown into fierce inner clashes (right-left, secular-religious, Haredi-Ashkenazi) just as it heads into a new major war while being led by a divisive and toxic psychopath.

Watching Israel right now is like watching a prophecy of doom, happening live.”

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ScrollingLeaves · 01/07/2024 20:06

Finallyloggedin · 01/07/2024 19:50

https://www.972mag.com/sde-teiman-prisoners-lawyer-mahajneh/

Israeli lawyer’s impression of detention centre

It is horrific and it is barbaric.

By the way, these prisoners are not Hamas fighters. Hamas fighters are held elsewhere.

A nasty little detail - aside from starvation and rape among a few examples selected from a wider variety of cruelties - is that
“They are not allowed to pray or even read the Qur’an.”

The Israeli captors are living proof of what happens when certain people have absolute power. They themselves are no longer civilised, if they ever were.

Finallyloggedin · 05/07/2024 21:40

Mint Press News on the media support afforded to Israel via the Murdoch empire.

https://t.co/ECQPBKCTDD

https://www.mintpressnews.com/rupert-murdoch-israel-most-powerful-weapon/287794/

https://t.co/ECQPBKCTDD

OP posts:
Vittuunterroristit · 05/07/2024 22:28

Finallyloggedin · 05/07/2024 21:40

Mint Press News on the media support afforded to Israel via the Murdoch empire.

https://t.co/ECQPBKCTDD

Edited

Yeah, MPN are big fans of the whole "they control the media thing". So are their pals Putin and Assad.

nicetuchus · 05/07/2024 22:41

Vittuunterroristit · 05/07/2024 22:28

Yeah, MPN are big fans of the whole "they control the media thing". So are their pals Putin and Assad.

That's where Venessa Beeley was spreading her mad conspiracies about the White Helmets.

It's a thing of wonder CITME, where folk lose their shit at links to articles from the DM but with a straight face will then demand you read Mint Press.

OP posts:
AhNowTed · 06/07/2024 00:38

The headline

Ten Holocaust survivors condemn Israel’s Gaza genocide

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 00:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 00:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BelleHathor · 06/07/2024 06:38

Mondoweiss is a website started in 2006 by a Jewish man Philip Weiss.

"Mondoweiss is an independent website that informs readers about developments in Israel/Palestine and related U.S. foreign policy. We provide news and analysis that is unavailable through mainstream media regarding the struggle for Palestinian human rights.
Founded in 2006 as a personal blog of journalist Philip Weiss, Mondoweiss grew inside the progressive Jewish community and has become a critical resource for the movement for justice for Palestinians. We continue to follow debates over the role of Israel and nationalism in Jewish American life while seeking to reflect a diverse community of views on issues of international importance. We recognize that Jewish voices are often prioritized in discussions of Israel and seek to challenge that dynamic by bringing a universalist focus to an issue that is commonly dominated by narrow points of view."
https://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss/

Mondoweiss – News and opinion about Palestine, Israel, and the United States

About Mondoweiss

Mondoweiss is an independent website that informs readers about developments in Israel/Palestine and related U.S. foreign policy. We provide news and analysis that is unavailable through mainstream…

https://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 10:02

BelleHathor · 06/07/2024 06:38

Mondoweiss is a website started in 2006 by a Jewish man Philip Weiss.

"Mondoweiss is an independent website that informs readers about developments in Israel/Palestine and related U.S. foreign policy. We provide news and analysis that is unavailable through mainstream media regarding the struggle for Palestinian human rights.
Founded in 2006 as a personal blog of journalist Philip Weiss, Mondoweiss grew inside the progressive Jewish community and has become a critical resource for the movement for justice for Palestinians. We continue to follow debates over the role of Israel and nationalism in Jewish American life while seeking to reflect a diverse community of views on issues of international importance. We recognize that Jewish voices are often prioritized in discussions of Israel and seek to challenge that dynamic by bringing a universalist focus to an issue that is commonly dominated by narrow points of view."
https://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss/

...with articles singing the praises of Sinwar, about how October 7th was prisoners bravely fighting back and how the Jewish community have a genocide problem.

Although given the excuses you made on another thread for someone laughing at the victims of October 7th I doubt that bothers you much.

BelleHathor · 06/07/2024 11:04

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 10:02

...with articles singing the praises of Sinwar, about how October 7th was prisoners bravely fighting back and how the Jewish community have a genocide problem.

Although given the excuses you made on another thread for someone laughing at the victims of October 7th I doubt that bothers you much.

Edited

What, I am capable of seeing both sides in a rational manner without getting over emotional and dismissing everything on the opposite side as "propaganda" or part of the Russian/Iranian axis of evil intent on destroying the west/Israel.

Lesson for you (that you will ignore) the source of the conflict is the occupation and the crimes that were committed in the 1940s, until that is recognised and an appropriate, just solution is reached, Israel will never safe in region.

In fact the crimes against humanity bring committed right now mean that Israeli's and by extension Jewish people (as a lot of people are too angry to care about or through ignorance do not distinguish between the groups) are at risk all around the World right now. Which is terrible and leading to a very dark place.

Here's the Sinwar article. Part of winning a war is studying your enemy. That's what the article covers, what are his motivations?. Your reaction illustrates perfectly how the Israeli Government were able to ignore, miss and dismiss thr signs of an imminent attack.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/07/the-philosophy-of-hamas-in-the-writings-of-yahya-sinwar/

On the other article, some people are associating Jewish people as a whole with the crimes being committed in Gaza. Antisemitic tropes are openly being shared right now, with discredited Historians like David Irving trending again.

Leader of Hamas in Gaza Yahya Sinwar attends victory rally in Gaza City following a ceasefire with Israel after 11 days of fighting, May 24, 2021. (Photo: Ashraf Amra/APA Images)

The philosophy of Hamas in the writings of Yahya Sinwar

The concepts of self-sacrifice, asceticism, and security awareness were crucial to Yahya Sinwar’s philosophy of resistance. The revolt that culminated with October 7 was the direct application of his political thought.

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/07/the-philosophy-of-hamas-in-the-writings-of-yahya-sinwar

keenforhelp · 06/07/2024 11:35

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 10:02

...with articles singing the praises of Sinwar, about how October 7th was prisoners bravely fighting back and how the Jewish community have a genocide problem.

Although given the excuses you made on another thread for someone laughing at the victims of October 7th I doubt that bothers you much.

Edited

Well said.

nicetuchus · 06/07/2024 11:38

Mondoweiss is a blog that most Jewish people balk at, and is generally regarded as a hate site. It often veers into outright antisemitism and support for terrorists, including publishing antisemitic cartoons. Its whole raison d'etre is to destabilise the mainstream diaspora Jewish community. Yes, I know the blogger is Jewish. But if you think that gives credence to him (or your argument) then you know absolutely nothing about Judaism and Jewish beliefs.

So pick your sources more wisely. If posters were repeatedly posting links to sites that host highly iffy commentary about Muslims and Islam because it suited their narrative, and a Muslim poster pointed out how problematic that was, what would your response be? Would you just arrogantly tell them they're wrong and carry on regardless? Or would you, rightly, report the thread for platforming anti-Muslim racism.

Talking of which, this thread is revolting. A bunch of non-Jewish posters arrogantly dissecting us, yet showing a complete lack of understanding of Jewish people and Zionism. And basically just listing Jews (well the good ones by OP's definition - she's even got post upthread linking to a list of good Jews. Lists of Jews is somewhere we've been before incidentally, it makes my stomach turn).

Antisemitic tropes are openly being shared right now, with discredited Historians like David Irving trending again.
Antisemitic websites, blogs and social media that openly share antisemitic tropes have been shared repeatedly on this thread and other similar threads. Some link to notorious conspiracy theory media - I mean the Mint Press FFS! And this is where left and right comes into play. Antisemitic tropes have been as openly shared by the left as they are on the right, where holocaust denier David Irving sits. On the other extreme, Roger Waters has been dabbling in holocaust revisionism and inversion for years, and now open 7/10 denial - counts himself as left wing. It's incredible how some people on here will only acknowledge antisemitic hatred once they've checked what end of the political spectrum it comes from. I'm sure you'll claim you don't care about left and right and don't check, but it's just way too much of a coincidence that the only Jew-hatred that gets acknowledged on here by many posters only comes from the right.

keenforhelp · 06/07/2024 11:44

BelleHathor · 06/07/2024 11:04

What, I am capable of seeing both sides in a rational manner without getting over emotional and dismissing everything on the opposite side as "propaganda" or part of the Russian/Iranian axis of evil intent on destroying the west/Israel.

Lesson for you (that you will ignore) the source of the conflict is the occupation and the crimes that were committed in the 1940s, until that is recognised and an appropriate, just solution is reached, Israel will never safe in region.

In fact the crimes against humanity bring committed right now mean that Israeli's and by extension Jewish people (as a lot of people are too angry to care about or through ignorance do not distinguish between the groups) are at risk all around the World right now. Which is terrible and leading to a very dark place.

Here's the Sinwar article. Part of winning a war is studying your enemy. That's what the article covers, what are his motivations?. Your reaction illustrates perfectly how the Israeli Government were able to ignore, miss and dismiss thr signs of an imminent attack.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/07/the-philosophy-of-hamas-in-the-writings-of-yahya-sinwar/

On the other article, some people are associating Jewish people as a whole with the crimes being committed in Gaza. Antisemitic tropes are openly being shared right now, with discredited Historians like David Irving trending again.

Did you really just conflate Israelis and Jewish people saying Jewish people are at risk in the world?

BelleHathor · 06/07/2024 11:49

keenforhelp · 06/07/2024 11:44

Did you really just conflate Israelis and Jewish people saying Jewish people are at risk in the world?

No, you as usual chose to misinterpret something that I said in order to act offended.
What I did do is say that on social media and increasingly in real life there are an increasing number of people that are doing exactly that and it will lead to an extremely dark place. Anyway it's Saturday and I have things to do, so bye.

keenforhelp · 06/07/2024 12:36

BelleHathor · 06/07/2024 11:49

No, you as usual chose to misinterpret something that I said in order to act offended.
What I did do is say that on social media and increasingly in real life there are an increasing number of people that are doing exactly that and it will lead to an extremely dark place. Anyway it's Saturday and I have things to do, so bye.

But you did. You even posted a Sinwar article

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 14:06

BelleHathor · 06/07/2024 11:04

What, I am capable of seeing both sides in a rational manner without getting over emotional and dismissing everything on the opposite side as "propaganda" or part of the Russian/Iranian axis of evil intent on destroying the west/Israel.

Lesson for you (that you will ignore) the source of the conflict is the occupation and the crimes that were committed in the 1940s, until that is recognised and an appropriate, just solution is reached, Israel will never safe in region.

In fact the crimes against humanity bring committed right now mean that Israeli's and by extension Jewish people (as a lot of people are too angry to care about or through ignorance do not distinguish between the groups) are at risk all around the World right now. Which is terrible and leading to a very dark place.

Here's the Sinwar article. Part of winning a war is studying your enemy. That's what the article covers, what are his motivations?. Your reaction illustrates perfectly how the Israeli Government were able to ignore, miss and dismiss thr signs of an imminent attack.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/07/the-philosophy-of-hamas-in-the-writings-of-yahya-sinwar/

On the other article, some people are associating Jewish people as a whole with the crimes being committed in Gaza. Antisemitic tropes are openly being shared right now, with discredited Historians like David Irving trending again.

The article isn't about knowing the enemy. Its about look how great this terrorist leader (sorry, "resistance leader") is. The man who ordered the "revolt" on October 7th. Written by the Resistance News Network, who are dedicated to posting propaganda from various terrorist organisations and calling for violence against Israel and Jewish people in general. Don't worry though, @mnhq have confirmed that they don't censor news sites so you're fine to post terrorist propaganda.

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 14:09

In fact the crimes against humanity bring committed right now mean that Israeli's and by extension Jewish people (as a lot of people are too angry to care about or through ignorance do not distinguish between the groups) are at risk all around the World right now. Which is terrible and leading to a very dark place.

It's not anger or ignorance it's antisemitism. Anyone who does that is a vile antisemite. But you make excuses for antisemites and terrorist supporters because you want to see "both sides".

keenforhelp · 06/07/2024 15:57

Yup apparently its ok to post an article by the leader of a proscribed terrorist organization who started the war.

I am glad it has been allowed to stand though .

ScrollingLeaves · 06/07/2024 16:55

Vittuunterroristit · 06/07/2024 10:02

...with articles singing the praises of Sinwar, about how October 7th was prisoners bravely fighting back and how the Jewish community have a genocide problem.

Although given the excuses you made on another thread for someone laughing at the victims of October 7th I doubt that bothers you much.

Edited

Although given the excuses you made on another thread for someone laughing at the victims of October 7th I doubt that bothers you much

Please would you avoid sarcastic personal attacks of this kind?
They could be thrown in all directions when it comes down to it.