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Conflict in the Middle East
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94
SpryAmberSeal · 08/03/2024 22:44

Rachel757677 · 08/03/2024 22:29

It is not. The term collateral damage should never be used as an excuse or a justification for wrongful acts that cause death and mass suffering. Any loss of life in this conflict is equally tragic for family and friends of those killed, no matter how.

You are insisting a distinction must be made between Israeli victims and Palestinian victims though.

A distinction must be made. Hamas deliberately murdered and raped. That is not the same as poor innocents being the victims of collateral damage.

Do you think Israel is accidently slowly starving the children of Gaza to death even though they announced months ago that they would be doing it and now inevitably people are dying from starvation as they do when you deny them food for months? Can you clarify what the distinction you think must be made is exactly?

Efacsen · 08/03/2024 23:05

Oh no - there hadn't been any deaths reported for over 24 hours then this

Three more children die of hunger at al-Shifa Hospital

Three more children died of malnutrition and dehydration at Gaza City’s al-Shifa Hospital, according to the Health Ministry in the besieged enclave.

It brings the official death toll from malnutrition and dehydration in Gaza hospitals to 23.

ScrollingLeaves · 09/03/2024 00:33

SpryAmberSeal · 08/03/2024 22:44

You are insisting a distinction must be made between Israeli victims and Palestinian victims though.

A distinction must be made. Hamas deliberately murdered and raped. That is not the same as poor innocents being the victims of collateral damage.

Do you think Israel is accidently slowly starving the children of Gaza to death even though they announced months ago that they would be doing it and now inevitably people are dying from starvation as they do when you deny them food for months? Can you clarify what the distinction you think must be made is exactly?

And bombing Gaza constantly knowing people are there with no where to go?
30,000 deaths 75 % of whom are children and women. 70,000 wounded/maimed/burned. Thousands more under the rubble. Settlers harrassing and killing Palestinians in the West Bank.

And deliberately sniping women and children often enough to make it look like the IDF think it’s a fun sport.

Efacsen · 09/03/2024 08:32

A bit more on the US port - 2 months to build!

US president Joe Biden’s plan to build a floating military port to speed up aid to Gaza could take up to 60 days to become a reality and involve more than 1,000 US troops, the Pentagon said on Friday.

Efacsen · 09/03/2024 08:46

The maritime aid passage on the other hand is proposed to start a pilot sailing today/on Sunday

Tho' not clear ATM where the aid will be landed and unloaded - yesterday Cameron was appealing to Israel to open the port of Ashod in Israel - hmm seen what happens to aid in Ashod before

EU will open sea corridor to send aid from Cyprus to Gaza amid famine fears

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/08/sea-corridor-aid-gaza

EU will open sea corridor to send aid from Cyprus to Gaza amid famine fears

Commission president says pilot delivery is expected to set sail on Saturday but did not say where shipments would land or unload

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/08/sea-corridor-aid-gaza

ConnieCounter · 09/03/2024 09:36

https://www.instagram.com/p/C4RMREtOYhM/?igsh=MjdlZGtodzgybmsx

IDF murdering an old man in his pyjamas who had his arms raised. Fucking heroes. Apparently this is from November. The link is just footage of the Israeli soldiers talking about the incident and congratulating themselves. Apparently the footage of the actual incident is on twitter but I haven't seen it or looked for it.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/C4RMREtOYhM?igsh=MjdlZGtodzgybmsx

Littlebowiepeep · 09/03/2024 09:44

ConnieCounter · 09/03/2024 09:36

https://www.instagram.com/p/C4RMREtOYhM/?igsh=MjdlZGtodzgybmsx

IDF murdering an old man in his pyjamas who had his arms raised. Fucking heroes. Apparently this is from November. The link is just footage of the Israeli soldiers talking about the incident and congratulating themselves. Apparently the footage of the actual incident is on twitter but I haven't seen it or looked for it.

You won't find it because it doesn't exist.

Efacsen · 09/03/2024 09:46

More on the maritime aid corridor trial run

A Spanish-flagged vessel the Open Arms* is being loaded right now in Larnaca with pallets of food aid from the US charity World Kitchen - the plan seems to be for it to tow a barge containing the aid to the coast of northern Gaza then somehow which isn't clear the aid gets transferred to land and then to the people needing it

Maybe COGAT or UNWRA will help get the aid ashore?

MSF has pointed out that these plans are creating their own logistical problems and that getting aid into Gaza is a political problem not a logistical one. See also the port.

*this vessel was originally described as belonging to Spain - thought it was a bit of an unusual name for a Spanish ship - it would be interesting to know who are the actual owners. Is this another US venture dressed up to be an 'EU initiative'??

ConnieCounter · 09/03/2024 09:47

Littlebowiepeep · 09/03/2024 09:44

You won't find it because it doesn't exist.

I hope you're right! As I said I'm not going to look for it.

BelleHathor · 09/03/2024 10:01

ConnieCounter · 09/03/2024 09:36

https://www.instagram.com/p/C4RMREtOYhM/?igsh=MjdlZGtodzgybmsx

IDF murdering an old man in his pyjamas who had his arms raised. Fucking heroes. Apparently this is from November. The link is just footage of the Israeli soldiers talking about the incident and congratulating themselves. Apparently the footage of the actual incident is on twitter but I haven't seen it or looked for it.

This is a twitter link.
https://x.com/warfareanalysis/status/1766185986902397047?s=20
Details from the tweet:

1. Al Jazeera aired shocking footage of Israeli soldiers executing an elderly Palestinian civilian west of Gaza City.

2. The footage was obtained from a Dead officer's GoPro.

3. It shows the officer giving orders to kill unarmed civilians.

4. The footage was handed to Al Jazeera by Al-Qassam.

5. There were no clashes in the area.

6. The footage on the camera is dated November 6th. Time: 15:55.

Location: West Gaza city.

https://x.com/warfareanalysis/status/1766185986902397047?s=20

Littlebowiepeep · 09/03/2024 10:12

BelleHathor · 09/03/2024 10:01

This is a twitter link.
https://x.com/warfareanalysis/status/1766185986902397047?s=20
Details from the tweet:

1. Al Jazeera aired shocking footage of Israeli soldiers executing an elderly Palestinian civilian west of Gaza City.

2. The footage was obtained from a Dead officer's GoPro.

3. It shows the officer giving orders to kill unarmed civilians.

4. The footage was handed to Al Jazeera by Al-Qassam.

5. There were no clashes in the area.

6. The footage on the camera is dated November 6th. Time: 15:55.

Location: West Gaza city.

That Twitter link doesn't exist either.

Silence1 · 09/03/2024 10:14

An interesting read on how Israel officials regard the situation. It begs the question why don't they just let independent journalists in to verify what they say and we can all breath a sigh of relief .
“There is no hunger in Gaza,”
"THE SITUATION in Gaza is akin to hunger in New York, where homeless people suffer not from a lack of food but from a lack of money to purchase it,” he explained. ""

I am sure some of it is being stolen and sold but that is not the crux of the problem.

Also they would rather it was framed as a West v's Iran war and that the US and the UK should be doing more to eliminate Iranian proxies. Just as I fear, they want to drag us all into a huge war.

Zvika Klein's Editor's Notes: 'There is no famine' in Gaza - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

Editor's Notes: 'There is no famine in Gaza' - comment

The United Nations said in February that more than a quarter of Gaza’s 2.3 million people were “estimated to be facing catastrophic levels of deprivation and starvation.”

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-790880

Efacsen · 09/03/2024 10:14

Littlebowiepeep · 09/03/2024 10:12

That Twitter link doesn't exist either.

Must be something wrong your end - works fine for me [sadly]

ConnieCounter · 09/03/2024 10:17

Efacsen · 09/03/2024 10:14

Must be something wrong your end - works fine for me [sadly]

Me too.

AliceA2021 · 09/03/2024 10:21

Apparently the footage is from the GoPro camera of a dead soldier.

ScrollingLeaves · 09/03/2024 10:23

Littlebowiepeep · 09/03/2024 10:12

That Twitter link doesn't exist either.

I found the footage on a site by googling the report quote words of #1
It was very evidently body cam footage. I could not understand the writing though.

Parkingt111 · 09/03/2024 10:24

Link works for me
Quite sickening

EasterIssland · 09/03/2024 10:25

Efacsen · 09/03/2024 09:46

More on the maritime aid corridor trial run

A Spanish-flagged vessel the Open Arms* is being loaded right now in Larnaca with pallets of food aid from the US charity World Kitchen - the plan seems to be for it to tow a barge containing the aid to the coast of northern Gaza then somehow which isn't clear the aid gets transferred to land and then to the people needing it

Maybe COGAT or UNWRA will help get the aid ashore?

MSF has pointed out that these plans are creating their own logistical problems and that getting aid into Gaza is a political problem not a logistical one. See also the port.

*this vessel was originally described as belonging to Spain - thought it was a bit of an unusual name for a Spanish ship - it would be interesting to know who are the actual owners. Is this another US venture dressed up to be an 'EU initiative'??

Open Arms is a Humanitarian, Non-Governmental, Non-Profit organisation. Our primary mission is to protect the life of the most vulnerable in emergency situations. We originate from a sea rescue company with more than 20 years experience on the Spanish coasts.

They’re are quite famous in Spain. they tend to be in the Mediterranean helping Africans that are trying to cross the border from Africa to Europe.

ConnieCounter · 09/03/2024 10:26

Silence1 · 09/03/2024 10:19

I can't see the tweet either. Is it related to this. Link to Middle East Eye youtube channel.

Edited

Yes that's an edited version of the same footage.

EasterIssland · 09/03/2024 10:26

Littlebowiepeep · 09/03/2024 10:12

That Twitter link doesn't exist either.

I can see it

This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 2)
Littlebowiepeep · 09/03/2024 10:28

Silence1 · 09/03/2024 10:19

I can't see the tweet either. Is it related to this. Link to Middle East Eye youtube channel.

Edited

It's rather unclear.

There is no footage of the soldier actually shooting the individual, there just seems to be a (blanked out) body on the floor.

There is no proof the scene of the soldiers talking, is connected with the body (?)

Efacsen · 09/03/2024 10:33

EasterIssland · 09/03/2024 10:25

Open Arms is a Humanitarian, Non-Governmental, Non-Profit organisation. Our primary mission is to protect the life of the most vulnerable in emergency situations. We originate from a sea rescue company with more than 20 years experience on the Spanish coasts.

They’re are quite famous in Spain. they tend to be in the Mediterranean helping Africans that are trying to cross the border from Africa to Europe.

Thanks for clarifying that @EasterIssland it wasn't clear in what I read hence my unwarranted scepticism

Rachel757677 · 09/03/2024 11:20

SpryAmberSeal · 08/03/2024 22:19

Can I ask what you think the objective of deliberately starving 2million people whilst denying them healthcare is? Do you not think that that must cause terror, to see your children slowly fading away before your eyes and not be able to do anything. To send your son out to try and get any aid they can not knowing if they will come back alive or if they will be shot by the Israeli army whilst queuing for food. To have to give birth by c section with no anaesthesia, knowing that you might have to watch your baby starve to death because you are too weak with malnutrition to produce breastmilk.

Bearing in mind the Israeli minister for defence said back in October I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed which leaves no doubt at all that the starvation and closing of healthcare is a very deliberate, planned act on behalf of Israel.

What Hamas did was deliberate and beyond awful but I'm not sure I see the distinction you do between the awful acts that Hamas commited and the awful acts Israel are committing. I would be interested in what you think Israels objective was when they announced they were going to starve people and then followed through and what makes Palestinians 'collateral damage' rather than the innocent victims of a brutal plan like you view Israelis?

Firstly....... It is very important to remember who initiated the latest escalation in this tragically long conflict. It was Hamas. They did so with their invasion of Israel and their deliberate killing, raping, and beheading of innocent men, women and children. If you have seen the clips I have you will know that many did this with enjoyment. They did so knowing exactly how Israel would respond. They did so knowing that it would lead to the death of thousands of innocent Palestinians. They did not care, They did it anyway.

I am sure that we all agree that Israel has the right to defend itself and respond to such deliberate acts of murderous barbarity don't we? However, this does not give them carte blanche to break international rules of engagement. They rightfully have the moral high ground, but if they want to keep it they need to be careful about respecting those international rules. I believe there are examples where they have not, and I am not talking about individuals gone rogue. Some may make the point that Hamas does not respect said rules, but that is why they are generally regarded as a terrorists.

Regarding your point about Israels objective in displacing poor innocent Palestinian civilians, a tactic that has led to much suffering. Their objective is clear. By displacing those citizens they believe it will be easier to rout out Hamas who have a long record of using innocent people as human shields. It is not a tactic that I agree with given the huge suffering it causes. However, they are not looking to deliberately starve civilians in the same way Hamas deliberately murdered and raped in October. There is a clear distinction for people to see. However, that distinction means little to the poor people suffering on the ground.

As I said........ The whole thing is dreadful. It is made even more dreadful because I cannot see a solution to it. Many on here talk of a "two state solution" as some kind of cure all, but I do not think it will happen, and even if it did that would not be enough for the jihadists who will settle for nothing less than the complete destruction of the Jewish State of Israel.

There will be ebbs and flows in the violence, but it will continue to be the vicious circle that it has been for so many years. Tragic.

EasterIssland · 09/03/2024 11:23

Rachel757677 · 09/03/2024 11:20

Firstly....... It is very important to remember who initiated the latest escalation in this tragically long conflict. It was Hamas. They did so with their invasion of Israel and their deliberate killing, raping, and beheading of innocent men, women and children. If you have seen the clips I have you will know that many did this with enjoyment. They did so knowing exactly how Israel would respond. They did so knowing that it would lead to the death of thousands of innocent Palestinians. They did not care, They did it anyway.

I am sure that we all agree that Israel has the right to defend itself and respond to such deliberate acts of murderous barbarity don't we? However, this does not give them carte blanche to break international rules of engagement. They rightfully have the moral high ground, but if they want to keep it they need to be careful about respecting those international rules. I believe there are examples where they have not, and I am not talking about individuals gone rogue. Some may make the point that Hamas does not respect said rules, but that is why they are generally regarded as a terrorists.

Regarding your point about Israels objective in displacing poor innocent Palestinian civilians, a tactic that has led to much suffering. Their objective is clear. By displacing those citizens they believe it will be easier to rout out Hamas who have a long record of using innocent people as human shields. It is not a tactic that I agree with given the huge suffering it causes. However, they are not looking to deliberately starve civilians in the same way Hamas deliberately murdered and raped in October. There is a clear distinction for people to see. However, that distinction means little to the poor people suffering on the ground.

As I said........ The whole thing is dreadful. It is made even more dreadful because I cannot see a solution to it. Many on here talk of a "two state solution" as some kind of cure all, but I do not think it will happen, and even if it did that would not be enough for the jihadists who will settle for nothing less than the complete destruction of the Jewish State of Israel.

There will be ebbs and flows in the violence, but it will continue to be the vicious circle that it has been for so many years. Tragic.

Firstly....... It is very important to remember that this didn’t start on 7/10