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Conflict in the Middle East

What is going on on the left? Gaza/Israel conflict

1000 replies

Notsuretoputit · 10/12/2023 18:34

I am left wing, I wouldn’t consider myself anything other. I absolutely support Israel, have no problem understanding and supporting Zionism, and am absolutely horrified by the rising levels of anti-semitism in the UK.

It is to my despair that much of that anti-semitism is being perpetrated by those on the left. People I like, consider friends, who are tolerant and who I would never, ever have considered racist or anti-Semitic are plastering their Facebook walls with pro-Hamas TikTok propaganda. These are not teenagers naively believing propaganda, these are people who’ve spend years active in (left wing) politics.

I’ve read a lot in recent weeks about the far left’s historical problem with anti-semitism, but how can it be that nice, friendly, socially conscious people are indulging in this insane display of anti-semitism? Actively showing support for a terrorist organisation? Refusing to believe Hamas is guilty of any crimes, or that they have an excellent propaganda machine currently in operation. What is going on?

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SomeCatFromJapan · 11/12/2023 20:01

I honestly don't understand how people calling for a ceasefire can ignore things like this:

https://twitter.com/amjadt25/status/1734299951771869541

"Not just in the West Bank or Gaza, but in every city worldwide, we're shaping the future—training suicide bombers to target Jews"

When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Unless, apparently, it's Hamas.

https://twitter.com/amjadt25/status/1734299951771869541

Livinginanotherworld · 11/12/2023 20:05

25milesfromhome · 11/12/2023 19:43

Of course she did.

I see we’ve reached the “some of my best friends are Jewish” stage. Of course these Jewish friends, who definitely exist, all think and behave exactly like you.

I’m calling you out for speaking for and over Jews, which you’re still doing.

No, not a “best friend” just a friend, with whom I walked with on Saturday as part of the Jewish Bloc. Were you there ?

FrippEnos · 11/12/2023 20:06

SomeCatFromJapan

And yet continuing to commit a genocide against group of people is also clearly not working.
At least a ceasefire would give Israel the moral high ground (if they can claw it back) and they could call for a united front against Hamas et al.

SomeCatFromJapan · 11/12/2023 20:09

@FrippEnos The moral high ground is scant comfort while you're being massacred. No other country would he expected to do so.
Hamas can't feasibly be left in situ in Gaza.

They won't get a united front from anywhere anyway, no matter what they do. The anti-Semitism in the wider region runs far too deep.

Realistically this operational phase shouldn't last too much longer anyway.

FrippEnos · 11/12/2023 20:13

@SomeCatFromJapan

Yet other countries have held the moral ground whilst being under attack from terrorists.

Realistically this operational phase shouldn't last too much longer anyway.

To quote you "scant comfort while you're being massacred."

Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 20:13

@SomeCatFromJapan I don't see how it would be possible to do so when there's still supposedly approx 20k Hamas members remaining

SomeCatFromJapan · 11/12/2023 20:15

I actually find this incredible. Israel suffers its worst terrorist atrocity ever, from the organisation in control of Gaza, and the expectation is that they #bekind.

Fuck me sideways.

cauliflowerwaterfall · 11/12/2023 20:15

I think that comment gets to the heart of how people don’t understand October 7th and the west’s reaction to it changed everything for Jewish people. It opened our eyes to the contempt we are still held in. The fact that you think you can dangle your moral approval over us and think it’s something a) we believe you’d ever give us anyway, b) is something we actually want, c) that we see you as our moral betters and d) is superior to living in safety and security. Err no.

OuiOuiKitty · 11/12/2023 20:18

SomeCatFromJapan · 11/12/2023 20:15

I actually find this incredible. Israel suffers its worst terrorist atrocity ever, from the organisation in control of Gaza, and the expectation is that they #bekind.

Fuck me sideways.

Yeah fuck that. It should be #genocide #starvethemall #flattengaza

Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 20:19

I'm going by the figures of there being approx 25k-30k Hamas members
Even if we take the highest figure given by the IDF that 7k have been killed, there are still the majority left
Unless the plan is in the time remaining to target the people at the top rather than to try and take out all

FrippEnos · 11/12/2023 20:19

@SomeCatFromJapan and @cauliflowerwaterfall

Because what Israel is doing now is clearly solving the problem. Yeah Right

dreamingdays · 11/12/2023 20:19

thank you to whoever posted this. Chris Hedges "The Genocide in Gaza"

s

Just started watching and impressed.

floodlightonwhatisright · 11/12/2023 20:19

Hiddenmnetter · 11/12/2023 19:22

Yes it’s an interesting feature of the gyrations to avoid being anti-Semitic- I’m not against Jews, just the Zionist kind. What, like all the Jews who live in Israel and those globally who believe that the state of Israel should exist?

also, being against the Zionist kind of Jews- how do you distinguish? Do they possibly walk around with a Star of David sewn onto their clothing? I suppose you could barcode them, but both of these have been tried before…oh wait.

There was an earlier poster who likened the quote that “we will have peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us” to a domestic abuser telling their victim that they make them do it. It’s not even a remotely close analogy- see the reports coming in: Hamas strip all the aid trucks and nothing gets to the civilians. Hamas force their citizens into harms way. So for this, Israel should not attempt to strike back?

for goodness sake, in the wake of 9/11 a twenty year long, $20tn war was fought, encompassing 3 nations. In the wake of the assassination of Franz Ferdinand the First World War was started. In the wake of the German blitz World War Two was started. In the wake of the Gulf of Tonkin incident Vietnam war was started. And the list goes on.

Why are Israel not only expected to not strike back, but they are additionally expected to provide humanitarian aid (which they know ends up with Hamas and not Palestinian civilians) and to keep supplying fuel, water and electricity? It baffles the mind. It’s literally nuts. Gaza has, since 2005, been independent of Israel. It has its own government, it has received billions and billions in aid. It could have created various infrastructure to supply its citizens with the essentials like water, electricity and fuel. All of that could have happened. Yes, Israel controls its border with Gaza, and controls what passes through that border- like every other state in the world. Then, in 2007, Gaza elected a government that swore to wipe Israel off the map. So they blockaded what could go into Gaza in order to provide for their own security. Hamas ran a continual campaign of terror, doing things like using children to bait IDF soldiers (children throw stones/other things at the soldiers, the soldiers chase them to arrest them, and end up in a Hamas ambush), using ordinary civilians as human shields, firing rockets continually at Israel (tens of thousands of rockets) which Israel has developed the Iron Dome to protect themselves from. Here’s an interesting aside: despite its huge success, why has no other country in the world purchased the Iron Dome from Israel?

Because no other country in the world would EVER tolerate having tens of thousands of rockets fired at them and not be allowed to retaliate. No one wants the iron dome because it’s only really suitable for countries that can’t fire back.

Now, pushed past the limits of their patience, they retaliate. And everyone screams foul? It is mind boggling. No serious person can possibly argue that the civilian casualties are the IDFs sole responsibility. I’m sure they could do things better, but overwhelmingly the rate of Palestinian civilian deaths is a factor of the Hamas doctrine of human shields. This is not new to this conflict or even vaguely in doubt- Hamas have been putting civilians in the way of danger since 2007. It’s their principle method of ensuring that all conflict is win-win for them. Either Israel avoids striking to avoid collateral damage (which means Hamas’ ability to operate is not degraded) or Israel strikes kill civilians and degrade Hamas operations, which in turn gives Hamas the propaganda which is currently fuelling the anti-Israel sentiment.

The number of useful idiots in the western world boggles the mind. Feminists, LGBT groups and others like them supporting Hamas who routinely execute those who espouse such things inside Gaza baffles the mind. No one, surely, can be that stupid? But apparently they can. Queers for Palestine boggles the mind when homosexuals in the West Bank are beheaded. You’d think they’d support the liberal and tolerant Israel, but no: useful idiots are, unfortunately, idiots.

The only two conclusions I can reasonably draw are either a) gross stupidity or b) rife anti-semitism. I’m not sure which is more distressing.

Hiddenmnetter - this is literally one of the best and accurate posts summing up the situation. I wish it could be a kind of "sticky" sort of post, you know the kind of post on forums for newbies and put on all Pro Palestinian (all 400 of them) threads to rebut their rubbish assertions.

Brilliant stuff - I salute you.

cauliflowerwaterfall · 11/12/2023 20:21

FrippEnos · 11/12/2023 20:19

@SomeCatFromJapan and @cauliflowerwaterfall

Because what Israel is doing now is clearly solving the problem. Yeah Right

It’s literally solving the problem

Pizdietz · 11/12/2023 20:21

Livinginanotherworld · 11/12/2023 00:09

https://x.com/PalestineNW/status/1733978322013434307?s=20

this is a hard watch, a survivor of Oct 07 tells her story, it might open your eyes @Pizdietz

Open my eyes to what, exactly?

What is it that you want me to learn from this video?

OuiOuiKitty · 11/12/2023 20:22

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cauliflowerwaterfall · 11/12/2023 20:24

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I have deleted 3 different replies that I could have posted.

Disgusting. No other words.

This is the last interaction you will get from me.

FrippEnos · 11/12/2023 20:25

cauliflowerwaterfall · 11/12/2023 20:21

It’s literally solving the problem

How is it literally solving the problem?
It isn't destroying Hamas by all accounts there are many members left.
It is creating more anti Semitism across the globe and again by all accounts
and we know have suicide bombers being trained in other countries.

So no its not literally solving the problem, its just causing more, not only for the Jewish people but for everybody. So well done.

dreamingdays · 11/12/2023 20:25

FrippEnos · 11/12/2023 20:25

How is it literally solving the problem?
It isn't destroying Hamas by all accounts there are many members left.
It is creating more anti Semitism across the globe and again by all accounts
and we know have suicide bombers being trained in other countries.

So no its not literally solving the problem, its just causing more, not only for the Jewish people but for everybody. So well done.

I think the implication was that Palestinians are "the problem". :(

SomeCatFromJapan · 11/12/2023 20:27

Yeah, it might solve it once and for all. Finalise it, one might say.

Careful, the Met Police arrested people with similar signage this weekend.

OuiOuiKitty · 11/12/2023 20:27

cauliflowerwaterfall · 11/12/2023 20:24

I have deleted 3 different replies that I could have posted.

Disgusting. No other words.

This is the last interaction you will get from me.

Someone who thinks that starving an entire population to death is 'solving the problem' doesn't want to engage with me. I'm sure I'll recover.

etmoiandme · 11/12/2023 20:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Finalise it, one might say

Wow.

To all those who call "evidence please" - here you go!

bness · 11/12/2023 20:28

floodlightonwhatisright · 11/12/2023 20:19

Hiddenmnetter - this is literally one of the best and accurate posts summing up the situation. I wish it could be a kind of "sticky" sort of post, you know the kind of post on forums for newbies and put on all Pro Palestinian (all 400 of them) threads to rebut their rubbish assertions.

Brilliant stuff - I salute you.

Would you think that a post that supports Palestinians and points to all of Israels brutal forces should be stuck to all the posts about Israel as a must read for all newbies and lsrael supporters?

Or are pro Palestinians the blind deaf and dumb ones who need to be educated?

etmoiandme · 11/12/2023 20:28

@floodlightonwhatisright @Hiddenmnetter Agree, a really good post.

OuiOuiKitty · 11/12/2023 20:29

SomeCatFromJapan · 11/12/2023 20:27

Yeah, it might solve it once and for all. Finalise it, one might say.

Careful, the Met Police arrested people with similar signage this weekend.

Really? For pointing out the truth? That genocide kills people? That starving an entire population to death will 'solve the problem' forever? British people should know that, they tried it themselves.

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