What is going on on the left? Gaza/Israel conflict

[Notsuretoputit]

I am left wing, I wouldn’t consider myself anything other. I absolutely support Israel, have no problem understanding and supporting Zionism, and am absolutely horrified by the rising levels of anti-semitism in the UK.

It is to my despair that much of that anti-semitism is being perpetrated by those on the left. People I like, consider friends, who are tolerant and who I would never, ever have considered racist or anti-Semitic are plastering their Facebook walls with pro-Hamas TikTok propaganda. These are not teenagers naively believing propaganda, these are people who’ve spend years active in (left wing) politics.

I’ve read a lot in recent weeks about the far left’s historical problem with anti-semitism, but how can it be that nice, friendly, socially conscious people are indulging in this insane display of anti-semitism? Actively showing support for a terrorist organisation? Refusing to believe Hamas is guilty of any crimes, or that they have an excellent propaganda machine currently in operation. What is going on?

This is a good compilation of things that Israeli govt officials have said about Palestinians which directly goes against the whole "democracy" "idf protects civilians" etc stuff that is peddled on here

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0jUwcLM5wv/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

@bness
I've noticed a few times now that whenever someone challenges you on something you just ignore it and move on to your next topic of choice.

I just wanted you to know that I've noticed, so I'm sure others have too. It's not a great way to discuss or debate something, and it's pretty transparent behaviour.

That’s hardly new. Israel has brainwashed its population into thinking they are always the victims acting in self defence and that everyone is out to get Israel because apparently we’re all just Jew haters and that’s why we criticize. Nothing to do with the illegal occupation, apartheid, humanitarian blockade, ethnic cleansing etc. Israel was forced to do those things to stay safe. Wasn’t it Gold Meir who said “we can never forgive the Arabs for forcing us to kill their children." ?

it’s a very insular society where kids are taught from an early age to see all Arabs as terrorists and liars.

I promise you, you haven’t heard it all.

From the antizionists, I hear that we are white colonial settlers, we have established an Apartheid state, we harvest organs from Palestinians, we ritually sacrifice Palestinian babies, we are committing what appears to be the least successful genocide of all time, we forcibly sterilise people, we control the US government but also we are completely dependent on them, we have Mossad trained laser dolphins, we have a space laser, a lot of these are laser-based, we are committing thousands of war crimes, we use antisemitism to stop people saying hurtywords about Israel, we control Mumsnet, October 7th didn’t happen - in fact we shot at ourselves with Apache helicopters, we made up stories about babies being mutilated and tortured, we’re islamophobic, we control Gaza, we control the West Bank, every single one of us displaced every single Palestinian but also the bit they’re currently on was theirs too…

Meanwhile…

According to the right, we’re definitely not white, in fact we’re not even human, we’re subhumans or sometimes even lizard people wearing the meat skins of our victims, we’re communists, we are the medical establishment, we sterilise white Christian women, we control the US government here too, as well as the US military and global economy, we are carrying out a mass displacement of white people to replace them with people easier for us to control 😵‍💫, we’re secretly loyal to Israel over our home country, we don’t even let you say Merry Christmas anymore!, we’re transing kids, we’re secretly working for enemy governments, we’re organ harvesting Americans, something something George Soros

According to the left, I hear we’re arch capitalists, we control the banks and manipulate the financial system to our own end, we don’t deserve sympathy because we’re all wealthy, we control the banks here too, something something Rothschilds

According to BHI we have displaced them as “real” Jews and we are lying about everything

According to BLM we trained the cops to kill George Floyd

According to Christians, we killed Jesus Christ and we bake the blood of the innocent into our Matzah…

And that’s not even touching the sides. You haven’t heard everything, I have. And that’s why I am rolling my eyes.

Agreed. Such hilarity over drunk posting on a thread about such sensitive topics. Embarrassing.

When you have nothing else to say... Just put your sherlock hat on and deduce the poster is to blame.

@Trulywonderful you know why the attention is being drawn here and why the 'left' is suddenly not being discussed anymore.

It’s a pretty old strategy as far as I have seen. The far right use it a lot too. The goal is to bombard Jews with the kind of allegations that in isolation would be completely sensational. It means we have to investigate the claims and come back ready to present what really happened, that it’s really not what was claimed at all. But by the time we do, they have already moved on to the next thing. There’s a saying that incredible claims require incredible evidence, but that’s not the case when there are a group of people society have decided for the past thousand years is just Bad. It’s easy to attack and accuse, and it means Jews are constantly on the defensive.

Paraphrasing, but: “When antisemites accuse Jews of theft it’s not because something has been stolen. It’s for the thrill of watching us forced to turn out our pockets.”

Those pesky antisemite antizionists, always making stuff up to smear Israel aren’t they. Let’s debunk some of those crazy accusations shall we?

on harvesting organs without consent

Israel admitted it did this:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs
**
on establishing an apartheid state

see human rights watch report they spent 4 years researching. Also back up by amnesty international and Bt’selem.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

on committing genocide and war crimes

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against

on making up stories about the torture of babies

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html

On being a white settler colonial project

why don’t you ask that Polish dude Benzion Mileikowsky about that one. He goes by Benjamin Netanyahu now.

I could go on and on but I suspect you’d just have your fingers in your eyes going lalallalalalalalala antisemite lalalalalala antisemite

Palestine was a British protectorate.
In 1948, the USA, the UK and France did not want Jewish refugees; anti semitism was rampant in Europe and the USA and the number of refugees was enormous.
Between these 3 countries, they decided to resettle the Jewish refugees in what was Palestine and called it Israel.
In order to do this, Palestinians were displaced, their homes taken from them and some were murdered by Jewish settlers. Sounds familiar? The West Bank springs to mind.
Is it just the the Palestinian people only object to being ruled over by Jews but not by the British (Christians) or the Ottomans (muslim?)??
Why the Palestinian people should be ruled by the Israeli government? Are they not allowed to have their own state as much as Israel has? Your question appears to imply that Palestinians need to be controlled. I find that baffling.

Correction: Benzion Mileikowsky/Netanyahu was Bibi's father, not the man himself.

The actual PM Netanyahu used to go by "Ben Nitay" back when he worked as a management consultant for BCG in the US - he claimed it was "easier to pronounce".

Here is a video of him back in those days - he never really changed s

The rest, of course, you are spot on about (and have sourced it).

If indeed she ever said it, that's a misquote of Golda Meir. I just looked it up and what she is actually supposed to have said is:

We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.

To be fair, I am not laughing at the situation, but at our completely futile collective efforts to make sense of it, drunk or sober.

An "expert" says this; another "expert" says the opposite. We know these facts; oh, no, we don't. This was reported; Ah, but who by? How dare you minimise our pain (both ways)... etc.

Meanwhile, all our blind groping for half-truths on here makes absolutely no difference to anything, which is probably just as well.

Yours is the version of the quote I am familiar with, too!

It is still abjectly racist, of course, and frankly reminds me of the gaslighting language domestic abusers use: "look at what you have made me do! [Because I am innocent of my own violence - you made me hurt you!]"

No idea if she actually ever said it, mind, and not bothered to go look it up!

What wasn’t ? There were bombing Lebanon again about an hour ago.

You’re right, thanks for the correction @HeidiInTheBigCity

I can’t see anywhere where people are accusing Jews of anything, take that big chip of your shoulder, they are accusing Zionist Israeli government and IDF.
Not “ Jews” as you call them.
Most Jewish people are rightly horrified by the genocide in Gaza and certainly don’t want to be misrepresented the way you are doing.

I can see how you wouldn’t like these quotes, because they don’t fit your perspective, and how out of context they could be interpreted in a different way. However, it seems quite a reach to come to your conclusion.

I don’t think that you should go around accusing people of something so serious without having more to go on.

Stop speaking for Jewish people, particularly when you’re speaking over actual Jewish people to do it.

“Zionist Israeli government” quite an interesting phrase.

Trying to think of a government in the world that doesn’t think the country they’re governing has a right to exist.

Unless “zionist” is being used euphemistically to mean something else…

I speak for the Jewish people I know who are horrified and marched with me on Saturday. There are many large Jewish organisations around the world who are horrified at what’s happening in Gaza. They are even demonstrating in Tel Aviv.
I’ll say it again, nobody on here has accused the Jewish people of anything, they have (as have I) accused the Israeli government and the IDF.
I cannot be any clearer than that. If you want to make it all about you, that’s your choice.

Hamas has no concern for children to the extent it uses under 18s to engage in all kinds of crimes, just as ISIS bred cubs of the caliphate and sent in suicide bombers and the like.

Israel needs to keep strong and continue its actions to destroy Hamas.

Hamas knew what it was doing when it killed 1200 Israelis - it probably was unhappy Saudi Arabia was getting closer relations with Israel as other arab nations recently have done amongst other reasons so it thought murdering some babies was a good idea to achieve its aims even if children in Gaza would suffer for that.

Stop speaking for Jewish people. Stop speaking over Jewish people.

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Most Jewish people are rightly horrified by the genocide in Gaza and certainly don’t want to be misrepresented the way you are doing.

@Livinginanotherworld don't do that it's painful. And speaking on people's behalf.

Doesn't matter who know and who marches with you. It's embarrassing.

Exactly a bunch of other Arab nations were making peace with Israel and they couldn’t bear that. I think they counted on getting more support for their pogrom than they got.