What is going on on the left? Gaza/Israel conflict

[Notsuretoputit]

I am left wing, I wouldn’t consider myself anything other. I absolutely support Israel, have no problem understanding and supporting Zionism, and am absolutely horrified by the rising levels of anti-semitism in the UK.

It is to my despair that much of that anti-semitism is being perpetrated by those on the left. People I like, consider friends, who are tolerant and who I would never, ever have considered racist or anti-Semitic are plastering their Facebook walls with pro-Hamas TikTok propaganda. These are not teenagers naively believing propaganda, these are people who’ve spend years active in (left wing) politics.

I’ve read a lot in recent weeks about the far left’s historical problem with anti-semitism, but how can it be that nice, friendly, socially conscious people are indulging in this insane display of anti-semitism? Actively showing support for a terrorist organisation? Refusing to believe Hamas is guilty of any crimes, or that they have an excellent propaganda machine currently in operation. What is going on?

Is someone - perhaps even a woman - even actually justifying forced contraception???

Very handmaids tale. Chilling.

Yes. While simultaneously berating other posters for a lack of empathy. It's hard to believe really

Do you blame victims for their own murder and forced displacement when they're not Jewish too?

Sickening.

No translators I said. Hence why various medical procedures got mixed up. They had different injections for different things. This was in fact not the only miss understand that happened because of the difference in health care procedures in Israel. The first injection was given in before they got to Israel and that seems to have been with translators and concent. Hence the automatic dishing out as is normal in Israel. Doctors just looked at the records that came with them and continued to administer every three months. Total fuck up but not Sterilisation a contraceptive. Shouldn't have happened and Doctors should have been sacked for not making sure the women understood what the injections were.

Thousands of Ethiopian women are said to be receiving shots of Depo-Provera every three months in Israeli clinics. The contraceptive stops menstruation and has been linked to fertility problems and osteoporosis.

It revealed that women were started on a course of contraceptive jabs while still in transit camps in Ethiopia, some without being told they were being given birth control and many having no idea of the side-effects.

When they eventually arrived in Israel, doctors continued the treatment unquestioningly. But the critical question remains unanswered as to who instigated the policy, with neither Israel nor Ethiopia willing to claim responsibility.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel

Another was pregnant with her fifth child when she arrived in the transit camp, where she would live for seven years. The woman in her thirties told Reuben that officials had gathered together all the new mothers in the camp and told them they would be given Depo-Provera as it would be too difficult for them to give birth Israel.

"No, we didn't want to take it, we refused. We said we didn't want it," the unnamed woman recalls in the film. She agreed to the injections only because she was told her immigration to Israel would be blocked and she would receive no further healthcare in the camps if she refused.

"This happened to many, many other women," Reuben said.

@Trulywonderful it appears you are wrong.

Israel automatically injects women with long acting contraceptives? Really?

@AdamRyan according to some posters, this is fine, just an error, nothing to see here, time to move on people. 😮

Now some people are literally making up mock horror. What happened was a big cock up but was not Sterilisation as the poster claimed

I explained why it was not Sterilisation and why people should not spread that properganda because it has the knock on affect to women's health who don't understand the injection are not Sterilisation.

There are plenty of things you can post currently about Israel. So why use old properganda about Sterilisation. The poster could used real examples government policies or actions. They chose not to do that.

@Trulywonderful what do you make of this? Doesn't sound like a "translation error". Your minimisation is disgusting.

Another was pregnant with her fifth child when she arrived in the transit camp, where she would live for seven years. The woman in her thirties told Reuben that officials had gathered together all the new mothers in the camp and told them they would be given Depo-Provera as it would be too difficult for them to give birth Israel.

"No, we didn't want to take it, we refused. We said we didn't want it," the unnamed woman recalls in the film. She agreed to the injections only because she was told her immigration to Israel would be blocked and she would receive no further healthcare in the camps if she refused.

"This happened to many, many other women," Reuben said.

I think probably lots of women have looked into or usee depo for their own contraception and know it has side effects and can fuck up your cycle.

And lots of women know how much female fertility is policed and how at risk women are of having their bodily autonomy removed (abortions, rape as well as forced contraceptives and sterilisation).

Believe me, I am horrified the Israeli government would do this to Jewish women coming from outside Israel. There is nothing "mock" about my horror.

No blaming - just pointing out enquiries into events in history, it is a widely known enquiry whether Israel had a hand in creating unrest in countries with Jewish residents to "encourage" migration to Israel. Creating unrest in other countries to further own political aims is not exclusive to Israel, has been done by various countries across history. Doesn't make it acceptable or right and is also an abomination, whether its Hamas creating unrest in Palestine or blocking peace processes or USA/Britain doing it. Just because it doesn't suit your narrative doesn't mean you automatically dismiss it or point to "Jewish" - as I said earlier, Israel could be any religion, it's the actions of the govt and army that are being criticised not the religion or the people

Initial women see a doctor about it. However after that it is a repeat prescription women get and they don't need a doctor after the first injection to do concent. So a nurse or another medical professional can give it. A doctor will normally only re assess the situation with it annually or something. We have a similar set up here for some things.

The Ethiopian women first got the injection before they travelled to Israel in refugee camp. The medical records travelled with them. Israel doctors should have made sure the women wanted to continue the injections and they fully understood what they were. However they just looked at the records and let the injections continue instead. It was a big cock up but again not Sterilisation.

@Trulywonderful

You missed out this part, the part where they were told their immigration would be blocked if they didn't take it:

"No, we didn't want to take it, we refused. We said we didn't want it," the unnamed woman recalls in the film. She agreed to the injections only because she was told her immigration to Israel would be blocked and she would receive no further healthcare in the camps if she refused.

I truly don't understand it either OP. I do understand the situation with Gaza at the moment is distressing, and I'm in full sympathy with the civilians who are suffering there. Obviously it's troubling that we hear there's quite a high level of support for Hamas still in Gaza, and support of the October 7th attack specifically, but that doesn't mean I want to see civilian casualties, and these are particularly high. It's even worse when you think about how many children are in Gaza, who have absolutely no culpability for the situation there. That said I support the existence of Israel, I support their right to defend themselves. I don't know if there's a different/better way they could be doing that but I also haven't seen any good suggestions from all the ceasefire people. Hamas are not interested in a ceasefire in any case, so I'm not really sure what the options are that don't involve just letting them win/continue as they are.

Regardless of Israel's policies though, the rise in antisemitism around the world is disturbing and unconscionable.

Yes most contraceptives have some negative points. Unfortunately that is the joy of being a woman or should I say person with a womb. Most of us can normally understand the language are doctors are speaking in so can make an informed decision. However in the case of the Ethiopian women they were let down by not being given translators whilst having medical treatment. Plus the doctors should have checked if they wanted to continue the injections once in Israel.

Dearie me

No it wasn’t 🙃

It’s just amazing how all these threads seem to always descend into people accusing Jews of every single possible crime, as if it’s a competition to see who can accuse us of the worst thing. How do we find the time!

Ok but Israel didn't exist when Iraqis started killing Jews🤦🏻‍♀️ I'm sure you'll still find a way of blaming it on Israel though.

I have a view that during discussions, once people start flaunting their ‘qualifications’, they have lost the debate. It makes me cringe so much.

Good Lord

Israel is basically an innocent bystander in everything it is accused of, from Nakba being a sheer propaganda tool to war crimes being called out by anti semitic world agencies, to forced sterilisation being just miscommunication to children shot point blank because they were indoctrinated and in the wrong place and Palestinians just being troublesome brainwashed bunch and ceasefire callers being deaf dumb blind

Heard it all..

On another note, an absolutely brilliant video by Chris Hedges, an Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and foreign correspondent on the Genocide in Gaza.

This is a brilliant video . If you watch only one thing this year, let it be this video - Absolutely nails the situation with Israel and Palestine with certainty and courage based on years of reporting for the New York Times in the middle East.

https://twitter.com/aziz0nomics/status/1734226197242872135

Here is a speech from a true Palestinian peace activist.