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Conflict in the Middle East

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Original poster

Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed

477 replies

mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:05

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th. It also appears some of the hostages may have been abused.

Was this because the horrendous violence doesn't fit in with that purely Palestinians are victims of this ongoing conflict? Are investigations into these crimes because women are viewed as second class citizens or the revelations 'muddy the waters' where some just want to see one side as the victim.

Israeli soldiers hug as they look at pictures of the Nova music festival victims at the site of the festival near Kibbutz Reim

Hamas planned sexual violence as weapon of war - Israeli campaigner

An Israeli campaigner says militants planned acts of sexual violence committed in October's attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
SomeCatFromJapan · 06/12/2023 15:49

https://twitter.com/mrconfino/status/1732270736625279225

So much for the hostages being well treated. They are starting to speak publicly about their treatment now and it includes sexual abuse.

https://twitter.com/mrconfino/status/1732270736625279225

XRAYTHIS · 06/12/2023 16:09

I know some will do the usual it's the DM but often the larger newspapers print stories first. The point is the horror of what happened is emerging more and more. The way Hamas, other terrorist organisations and some general Palestinian people treated Israelies, foreign workers and men, women and children at the Kibbutz and festival and in the cars they stopped is horrific.

Hamas are not men they are vile creatures. What they did was obscene. No words for some of the torture that they inflicted.

XRAYTHIS · 06/12/2023 16:27

Oh the BBC said they have verified the accounts as per the article

Totallymessed · 06/12/2023 18:48

Some posters in this section have reminded me of an interview I saw years ago, with an elderly man who had been one of the soldiers liberating Nazi death camps. When asked about the videos the soldiers took of the camps, he talked about how they hated taking videos of people starving to death, and mounds of dead bodies, but they did it because they knew that if they didn't, people in the future would deny what had happened.

On October 7th the terrorists (proudly!) videoed their own atrocities. But already people are denying it happened, or if it did , well it was no way near as bad as the Israelis claim, and if it was that bad, well, it was understandable because......

Original poster
mids2019 · 06/12/2023 18:49

There are those Israelis who witnessed the events that were so traumatised they took their own lives. RIP

OP posts:
Flump8 · 06/12/2023 19:41

IDF soliders found guilty of rape of Palestinians, including Palestinian terrorists, are tried and imprisoned. Rape is illegal in Israel,

Hamas revels in its use of rape as a weapon against Israelis.
Hamas condones rape against its own women.

Trulywonderful · 06/12/2023 20:08

Totallymessed · 06/12/2023 18:48

Some posters in this section have reminded me of an interview I saw years ago, with an elderly man who had been one of the soldiers liberating Nazi death camps. When asked about the videos the soldiers took of the camps, he talked about how they hated taking videos of people starving to death, and mounds of dead bodies, but they did it because they knew that if they didn't, people in the future would deny what had happened.

On October 7th the terrorists (proudly!) videoed their own atrocities. But already people are denying it happened, or if it did , well it was no way near as bad as the Israelis claim, and if it was that bad, well, it was understandable because......

You speak the truth here

Thank you from a Jewish person that is rather exasperated at some apologists posts on mumsnet and else where

whereaw · 06/12/2023 20:29

@Trulywonderful I can remember studying the Holocaust as an undergraduate and being so baffled by the idea that it could happen again, and that it must be spoken about and studied to ensure that didn't ever happen. I just couldn't comprehend that would ever be possible with people today and what (I thought) we had become in the Western world (liberty, equality, human rights etc).
I guess you can say I have truly grown up/ woken up from that view!

Trulywonderful · 06/12/2023 20:37

whereaw · 06/12/2023 20:29

@Trulywonderful I can remember studying the Holocaust as an undergraduate and being so baffled by the idea that it could happen again, and that it must be spoken about and studied to ensure that didn't ever happen. I just couldn't comprehend that would ever be possible with people today and what (I thought) we had become in the Western world (liberty, equality, human rights etc).
I guess you can say I have truly grown up/ woken up from that view!

Even as a Jewish person I thought the same as you for years

I think it was beyond comphension that it could have happened, let alone the very idea it happen again. I mean people would realise and stop it happening, call it out for what it is, wouldn't they.

I think some time during the 2021 conflict and protests I suddenly realised just how wrong I had been. Seeing thousands of people on the street calling for the death of Jews (They hadn't learnt to hide their Jew hate as well as they do now) was a rude awakening indeed

Happyvalleyfan · 06/12/2023 20:44

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Trulywonderful · 06/12/2023 22:33

.

Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed
stomachameleon · 06/12/2023 22:39

@Trulywonderful that's horrific. I don't know what else to say.

Happyvalleyfan · 07/12/2023 08:06

stomachameleon · 06/12/2023 22:39

@Trulywonderful that's horrific. I don't know what else to say.

The right to sex is a good book- speaking about the politics of sex.

The rape of women of different races has a differential impact dependent on the colour, background and power. So the rape of a poor villager in a developing country may not result in the same uproar as that of an educated woman from a developed country.

Equally, the race of the assailant has a powerful role of how the rape is conceived. So Hamas are rightly cried down as monsters, but men from a wealthier more powerful background - when they rape, they are seen as anomalies or just fooling around.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12492549/amp/British-woman-cleared-false-rape-claim-Cyprus-weighs-copycat-case.html

Brit cleared of false rape claim in Cyprus weighs in on copycat case

The now 22-year-old had reported to police in 2019 that she had been targeted by a group of Israeli men while on holiday at the popular resort of Ayia Napa.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12492549/amp/British-woman-cleared-false-rape-claim-Cyprus-weighs-copycat-case.html

Trulywonderful · 07/12/2023 09:10

Happyvalleyfan · 07/12/2023 08:06

The right to sex is a good book- speaking about the politics of sex.

The rape of women of different races has a differential impact dependent on the colour, background and power. So the rape of a poor villager in a developing country may not result in the same uproar as that of an educated woman from a developed country.

Equally, the race of the assailant has a powerful role of how the rape is conceived. So Hamas are rightly cried down as monsters, but men from a wealthier more powerful background - when they rape, they are seen as anomalies or just fooling around.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12492549/amp/British-woman-cleared-false-rape-claim-Cyprus-weighs-copycat-case.html

Edited
Show quote history

So you come on the thread with that link and trying to say Jewish people can get away with rape because of their global power but are called monsters

You have serious Jew hate and conspiracy theorist issues if you believe this

Hamas are responsible for the torture, rape and murder on that day. You claim to agree with this yet post a link to slag off Israelis. You could have posted a linl about an incident by any other nationality men but no it was Israeli men. We see you and know what you are doing. Mumsnet users are not stupid or that easily manipulated!

No amount of historical context excuses or global power conspiracy rubbish change what Hamas did or what this thread is about

You win fuckwittery post of the day and we haven't even got to lunchtime yet

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 09:10

@Happyvalleyfan whether it's a good read or not it's being used to defend the indefensible.

I am not sure why you included that story on here. Drunken students accused of rape is regular occurrence. It looks like the authorities are dealing with it. Grenade pushed up a vagina after being raped not so much....

Or is it just the jew element?

Trulywonderful · 07/12/2023 09:20

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 09:10

@Happyvalleyfan whether it's a good read or not it's being used to defend the indefensible.

I am not sure why you included that story on here. Drunken students accused of rape is regular occurrence. It looks like the authorities are dealing with it. Grenade pushed up a vagina after being raped not so much....

Or is it just the jew element?

Of course it was because they were Israeli

The poster could have found an incident like this from men of any and every nationality. However no they chose Israeli men because you know.......

It is like some people think everyone else on mumsnet is to thick to see their posts for what they are doing.

Fancy coming on this thread and hinting about Jewish global power or how Israeli men can get away with rape but Hamas are called out on it.

This is a sickening way to start my day. Wish I hadn't look at the thread now. So cross at this stuff.

MyOtherNameToday · 07/12/2023 09:28

MoreCraicPlease · 05/12/2023 08:38

I am also shocked by the reports coming out of mass brutal rapes on 7th October and how little airtime it’s getting. The few articles over the weekend are from MEN who witnessed it and I thank them for speaking up. Most of those women were killed or taken hostage. We don’t know - not should - what horrors they have endured when in captivity.

Wartime rape is a tool to suppress women further and to keep the shame alive. Ukraine was the same. Rapists know women don’t come out and say “this happened to me”. So on it goes.

Yet they go home heroes to their wives, mothers and sisters. How could any woman support that? Are women enabling rape?

Everyone knows a woman who has been sexually assaulted and no-one knows a rapist. That’s on us too. I am horrified.

Thanks for starting this thread.

This.

SomeCatFromJapan · 07/12/2023 10:09

Honestly some people who view the world through a particular lense are weirdly emboldened to say the most atrocious shit under the guise of "social justice".

ChalkWitch · 07/12/2023 11:32

Happyvalleyfan · 07/12/2023 08:06

The right to sex is a good book- speaking about the politics of sex.

The rape of women of different races has a differential impact dependent on the colour, background and power. So the rape of a poor villager in a developing country may not result in the same uproar as that of an educated woman from a developed country.

Equally, the race of the assailant has a powerful role of how the rape is conceived. So Hamas are rightly cried down as monsters, but men from a wealthier more powerful background - when they rape, they are seen as anomalies or just fooling around.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12492549/amp/British-woman-cleared-false-rape-claim-Cyprus-weighs-copycat-case.html

Edited
Show quote history

What point are you laboriously trying to make here @Happyvalleyfan ? Don’t skirt around it by referencing men from wealthier backgrounds, spit it out. Because to me it looks like you are saying that Israeli men are just as bad as those Hamas toads. As if that DM article somehow vindicates the 7th?
Now I’m sure that can’t be right so please do elucidate.

beAsensible1 · 07/12/2023 15:56

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/12/2023 17:07

Well I guess women describing what was done to them doesn’t count as proof if your starting point is that women are liars.
Or is that only Jewish women?

Show quote history

What women have described that? The video doesn’t have any of that in it which is what he was referring to.

owen hasn’t denied witness testimony or called women liars.

copiley695 · 07/12/2023 16:23

beAsensible1 · 07/12/2023 15:56

What women have described that? The video doesn’t have any of that in it which is what he was referring to.

owen hasn’t denied witness testimony or called women liars.

Show quote history

He's seeing that just because there were the bodies of children and women who look like they've been raped, doesn't mean Hamas raped woman and killed children. Maybe he thinks they spontaniously dropped dead or something.

Silence1 · 07/12/2023 16:38

I read the BBC report and its horrendous. As well as outrage at what these men did I also feel furious at the Israeli Govt and the IDF in their failures. These men had all the time in the world to run rampant.
I also read the texts from victims asking when is help coming. It sickens me as I see the same people on here praising the IDF for their current actions in Gaza whilst ignoring how they let their own people down.
I have just read an article saying the permit for the music festival was given despite concerns raised.

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 17:44

@copiley695 absolutely. Ridiculous man who doesn't like being called out.

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