Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Conflict in the Middle East

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed

477 replies

mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:05

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th. It also appears some of the hostages may have been abused.

Was this because the horrendous violence doesn't fit in with that purely Palestinians are victims of this ongoing conflict? Are investigations into these crimes because women are viewed as second class citizens or the revelations 'muddy the waters' where some just want to see one side as the victim.

Israeli soldiers hug as they look at pictures of the Nova music festival victims at the site of the festival near Kibbutz Reim

Hamas planned sexual violence as weapon of war - Israeli campaigner

An Israeli campaigner says militants planned acts of sexual violence committed in October's attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
runningpram · 09/12/2023 18:24

I’m skeptical that the Hamas fighters have nothing.
The Hamas fighters on TV looked well fed and well dressed. I do know Gaza, as a whole however,is incredibly poor. It’s also unfortunately true that billions of people around the world live in grinding poverty, they don’t use that as a reason to rape or commit atrocities against women and girls. I think there is a deeply embedded poison in a culture where this behaviour is accepted even by a minority. After this conflict i hope there will be some kind of social and educational outreach work, alongside many other measures targeted at Israel too, to change this situation for future generations.

SomeCatFromJapan · 09/12/2023 18:54

The Hamas leaders certainly aren't poor. Ismail Haniyeh isn't short of a few (billion) quid, which he enjoys spending in his adopted home Qatar.

Flump8 · 09/12/2023 19:12

Happyvalleyfan · 07/12/2023 20:07

I don’t mean to highlight a « Jewish » element, but a political one.

The UN have been called out for not condoning the rapes and mutilation more vociferously, which they should have done. But equally why are Western leaders and the press now talking about it too, in a more vociferous way?

It suddenly appears to be flooding news and SM. Not that it shouldn’t - but why now?

I do think rape is being « weaponised » but not as punishment of women we see in conflict, but as justification for deaths of others.

Edited
Show quote history

Flooding SM? I saw one article, and had to dig for it.

Flump8 · 09/12/2023 19:18

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons

Hamas have nothing? They literally run everything in Gaza. They steal aid from civilians to keep themselves fed and clothes and to build deadly weapons. They literally prohibit civilians from fleeing to places of refuge where they will have food and shelter. People don't reject a 2-state solution 5 times, and strap suicide vests to THEIR OWN children, and refuse to negotiate with their neighbour under any other terms than "Israel must be destroyed" because they have nothing.

You are conflating poor Palestinian civilians with an evil, corrupt, bloodthirsty regime that couldn't care less about their own people.

When you stand up for Hamas, you are hurting Palestinians. Palestinians will be celebrating when the Hamas regime is brought to an end.

If you don't believe please watch this interview with the son of one of the founders of Hamas d

SomeCatFromJapan · 09/12/2023 19:38

I think there's a huge amount of naivety here. Hamas operate as a cartel in Gaza, they make vast sums from innocent civilians just like any other mob organisation. They're not noble.

bluetackaddict · 09/12/2023 19:40

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons

DifficultBloodyWoman · 09/12/2023 19:45

its quite a well known fact i thought that alot of radicalised civilians who join hamas are usually men who have lost everything.

It’s interesting that you say that as I thought it was a well known fact that whole families join Hamas, usually when they are in economic need.

I’ll try to find the evidence for my thoughts. Please could you provide evidence for yours?

Humdingerydoo · 09/12/2023 19:46

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons

No, I don't think that is a well-known fact. Or a fact at all. Plenty of people who have families to support join Hamas as there are vast financial incentives involved. There have also in the past been female suicide bombers, so it's not just all men who have lost everything as per your supposedly well-known facts.

backtowinter · 09/12/2023 19:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons

If it's that well known perhaps you can reference a source?

I've not heard that as a fact before

TriOptimim · 09/12/2023 20:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons

They sound like excuses to me.

If you were to lose everything, would you rape and murder innocent civilians?

stomachameleon · 09/12/2023 20:10

@backtowinter I am struggling to find a source too.
Lots about the obscene wealth mind you. And misuse of funds.

Trulywonderful · 09/12/2023 20:18

Flump8 · 09/12/2023 19:18

Hamas have nothing? They literally run everything in Gaza. They steal aid from civilians to keep themselves fed and clothes and to build deadly weapons. They literally prohibit civilians from fleeing to places of refuge where they will have food and shelter. People don't reject a 2-state solution 5 times, and strap suicide vests to THEIR OWN children, and refuse to negotiate with their neighbour under any other terms than "Israel must be destroyed" because they have nothing.

You are conflating poor Palestinian civilians with an evil, corrupt, bloodthirsty regime that couldn't care less about their own people.

When you stand up for Hamas, you are hurting Palestinians. Palestinians will be celebrating when the Hamas regime is brought to an end.

If you don't believe please watch this interview with the son of one of the founders of Hamas d

Edited
Show quote history

This

There are videos coming out of Gaza where a few Gazan mothers are saying Hamas are taking the food aid for themselves

On one bbc I think it was as a mother was digging through rubble for her son she was crying that this was all Hamas’s fault

After the 2021 conflict a survey was carried out in Gaza. Civilians said most blamed Hamas for starting the recent conflict then. Also for high unemployment and the on going poor utilities issues. They did still majority hated the Israelis and there government though.

I think people need to stop assuming what Civilians of Gaza think and start listening to them and not Hamas. It is a situation that is far more complicated than some people seem to think.

Trulywonderful · 09/12/2023 20:23

The Hamas leaders and a far few others lives in Gaza was very luxurious. There were at least two large private schools that I knew about. A marble clad shopping centre and various other high end Dubai type buildings.

The conflict has always been about a pay day for the Palestinian leaders over the years. If not they would have used the aid money from the west and their pay cheques from Iran to make life better for their citizens.

Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed
stomachameleon · 09/12/2023 20:26

@Trulywonderful I agree with that and it really magnifies the complete hopelessness of the situation and yet reinforces the need for Hamas to go... whatever it takes.

Original poster
mids2019 · 10/12/2023 07:36

The utter savagery of Hamas underlies the need for a prevention of such an event ever happening again and to my mind that entails the removal of Hamas as a political and military force or how can Israel ever be safe? I think the reasons for these vile crimes not reaching the prominence is partly due to a very understandable need to protect the dignity of the deceased in some cases but importantly the crimes do feed into the reasoning that Hamas as a terrorist organisation who seem to have ordered such crimes has to cease to exist.

The attack on the 7th was extremely well planned so I have no doubt the monsters who participated had agreed in advance what should happen to those they captured. There was no mercy.

OP posts:
Trulywonderful · 10/12/2023 18:55

'JERUSALEM — The U.N.’s controversial Commission of Inquiry (COI) tasked with investigating Hamas’ crimes of rape and sexual abuse of Israelis has been deemed an "antisemitic" group by the Jewish State’s ambassador to the U.N. that is incapable of conducting a fair probe.

"The antisemitic Commission of Inquiry, established by the morally distorted
Human Rights Council, which recently appointed Iran as chair of the council’s Social Forum, is biased against Israel in every way," Israel’s Ambassador Gilad Erdan told Fox News Digital.

"Therefore, Israel has zero trust in its findings and its illegitimate activities. Its ‘investigation’ into the terror organization’s sexual crimes against Israeli women on Oct. 7 is akin to Yahya Sinwar, the head of Hamas in Gaza, investigating its crimes."'

stomachameleon · 10/12/2023 22:04

@Trulywonderful i don't disagree with some of that. Particularly in light of their snail pace like action to actually say anything. And the Iran thing is odd to most people....

I just wonder if collaboration might be Better?

sorbaat · 31/01/2024 18:58

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/29/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html

I'd like to say I hope this shut the denialists up but no doubt they'll find some excuse

0palfruity · 22/02/2024 18:43

It's awful. I've read the headlines and a couple of related tweets but can't bring myself to read the whole article.

CurlewKate · 22/02/2024 18:55

I actually don't know anyone who downplays the hideous atrocities on October 7. I know plenty who doen okay the atrocities committed by the IDF, though.

Februaryfeels · 22/02/2024 19:06

CurlewKate · 22/02/2024 18:55

I actually don't know anyone who downplays the hideous atrocities on October 7. I know plenty who doen okay the atrocities committed by the IDF, though.

I watched Debatebnight on BBC one last night and one of the audience said that there was no evidence of sexual assault on 7 October. Without a trace of shame he said that

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 22/02/2024 19:17

CurlewKate · 22/02/2024 18:55

I actually don't know anyone who downplays the hideous atrocities on October 7. I know plenty who doen okay the atrocities committed by the IDF, though.

A friend of mine posted on Facebook about the horror of what is happening to innocent people in Palestine and a friend of hers chipped in that the Israelis had probably made the whole thing up as an excuse for war and another of her friends agreed.

stomachamelon · 22/02/2024 19:41

@Februaryfeels I have seen plenty of denial too both by Hamas and Joe Public.

0palfruity · 22/02/2024 20:49

CurlewKate · 22/02/2024 18:55

I actually don't know anyone who downplays the hideous atrocities on October 7. I know plenty who doen okay the atrocities committed by the IDF, though.

You've clearly not spent much time on twitter