The JC: Sacha Baron Cohen says ‘Tiktok is creating the biggest antisemitic movement since the Nazis‘

[AllWeAreSaying]

https://www.thejc.com/news/news/tiktok-is-creating-the-biggest-antisemitic-movement-since-the-nazis-says-sacha-baron-cohen-atXpPLW21qrpRTcbh9MU2

The rise in antisemitism has been there for a long time and we all know which directions it comes from.

The current conflict has just ripped the mask off and now we see it more clearly.

Osama bin Laden thought that Afghanistan under the Taliban was the only true Islamic country. His new fans on TikTok might want to remember the images of thousands of Afghans desperate to leave the country when the Americans withdrew, or the Afghan women and girls murdered in the days afterwards (some beheaded) because they had dared to be political campaigners or to play sport. Maybe they are like the awful Yanis Varoufakis with his 'Hang on in there, sisters!' message to Afghan women, because anti-Westernism is so desirable that a few women being brutally murdered is a price he is willing to pay for it. Honestly, I'd like to take some of these people and drop them in Gaza or Afghanistan or Iran and see how they get on.

The issue of free speech and TikTok is very interesting because Chinese-owned TikTok in China is completely different from TikTok in the West. China has created the perfect junk-food mind parasite to indoctrinate Western audiences.

What would a more appropriate board be?

Telly Addicts?

Sorry, quoted the wrong poster.

That was to KittyOuipui.

Personally I like to listen to the great experts on Prejudice and Racism about these things. Only people I know that think antizionism and antisemitism are different don't seem to know what Zionism actually is. Jews have been Zionists for hundreds of years. Protesters seem to mix up Zionism with political Zionism. More than 80% of Jews are Zionists so that a pretty bad thing to not understand.

Sorry, OuiOui.

I was out and had a couple of glasses of wine. Osama won't approve.

Are we allowed to criticise Israel rather than Zionism per se?

I think if you say the Israeli government, leaders or policies that is the same as you would with any other country. Therefore not antisemitism. People may question if you have come to your thought out of prejudice but that happens in any debate.

You don't say France or the French are racist when it is Macron or government actions you have a problem with. So apply the same rules to Israel, Israelis and Jewish people in general. It really is that simple.

I completely agree OP. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

To put it into context, if any other ethnic group said that certain terms or phrases were deeply offensive to them, then the rest of the world (rightly) honours that.

If Jewish people say 'from the river to the sea is deeply offensive', the response is, 'well, maybe people don't mean it the way you think'.
^
It's a completely different standard for Jewish people.
^

Realifelurker just be clear about what you are criticising.

Israel = a country full of people with varying views?

The Israeli government?

Zionism = a belief that Jews have the right to live in their own state.? Doesn't mean they agree with Israeli government, or are anti Palestinian rights.

Jews = an ethnoreligion comprising people with varying views on anything and everything. Not all rich, white or European.

Judaism = the religion of (some) Jewish people.?

Easy if you remember it's like the differences between Arab, Palestinian, Muslim, Islam, Gaza, Jihadism.

So, antisemitic: zionism = nazism, Israel is white settler colonialism, Jews should go back to where they came from, Jews need to decide whose side they're on, Israelis are aping Hitler.

Not antsemitic: Netanyahu should be in fucking prison, Netanyahu and Hamas need each other, settlers currently attacking Palestinians are evil, we still need a two state solution.

Oh good grief. That was satire...the whole point of that film was to lure people into revealing their own bigotry and racism. He said that to see if people would agree with him and sadly, yes they did. 🙄

This

This

Seriously, acknowledging that Palestinians are human beings whose humanity has equal value to Israeli and Jewish lives is antisemitic?

Putting aside any political or moral evaluation of that position how do you think the optics of it are working out?

People keep using the buzzwords of 'genocide' and 'ethnic cleansing' in relation to Israel while completely ignoring that this is the exact stated aim of Hamas - to wipe out all the Jews. Every rocket they fire, every suicide bomber they send, is all with the same aim of ethnically cleansing Jewish people from that region.

But oh ok, it's Israel who's apparently committing 'attempted genocide'. 🙄

Realifelurker just be clear about what you are criticising.

Not that simple I’m afraid.
Just look at the grief I got at the beginning of this thread and for what? Being antisemitic? No, expressing an opinion people didn’t want to hear so invested were they in complaining “Gaza Gaza it’s all we ever hear about” If you don’t want to hear about Gaza you’re in the wrong board
Would threads like this not be better off in the Jewish board? Since it’s about antisemitism specifically and not the war? I mean it’s up to you but

And I’m sorry but I had to lol at this

Netanyahu and Hamas need each other

Can you imagine if I’d said that ? Nailed to the wall mate.

I wonder if some posters are new to Mumsnet and don't actually understand the difference between a thread and a bord?🤷🏻‍♀️

*board. No edit on the app

Well said!

I try to let those comments slide over me because I know they do mean political Zionism. But it needs clarifying.

However, another point to add...

1. Jews have been Zionists since they were enslaved in Egypt if you regard that as historical - so basically for almost the entirety of Jewish history.
2. you cannot take Zionism out of any traditional Judaism. The Jewish religion is a closely knit connection between the people Jews), the land (Israel) and God. It's intrinsic.

In the modern liberal Jewish movements there is a bit more of a disconnect from Israel and a focus on going good in the world in general. However important prayers are still directed to Israel.

And you have very small sects of Ultra Orthodoxy such as Neturai Karta who are religiously Zionist but believe only God can bring a Jewish state, not politics. And for that reason are againstbthete being a political Jewish state. They are the ones seen at many anti Israel demonstrations with an NK website address on their placards, but they are extremely 'far out there' in terms of Judaism.

I wonder if some posters are new to Mumsnet and don't actually understand the difference between a thread and a bord

<sigh>

I understand the difference between a thread and a board.

Now what’s your point?

If you stick to certain rules like suggested then any criticism of your posts you should just ignore. Trust me I get told I like genocide and murdering children if I say anything about Hamas being not nice people. So we are all getting stick.

Saying that I have not read you other posts bit if you came on a thread talking about antisemitism and posted something not on topic then people are goto question your motivates. No saying you did that but some people do.

Also a bunch of Jewish posters talking about antisemitism works on some levels but doesn't really highlight the issues to others. So the Jewish board is probably isn't the best place for this thread.

Trust me I get told I like genocide and murdering children if I say anything about Hamas being not nice people. So we are all getting stick.
Yes, that’s true.

Saying that I have not read you other posts bit if you came on a thread talking about antisemitism and posted something not on topic then people are goto question your motivates. No saying you did that but some people do.
It was more responding to what other people had posted. It had already gone off topic somewhat by that point.

Also a bunch of Jewish posters talking about antisemitism works on some levels but doesn't really highlight the issues to others. So the Jewish board is probably isn't the best place for this thread
Oh okay. I guess that makes sense.* *

Sorry for typos, cannot edit on the phone app

We will forgive you

The Jewish board? How do you know OP is even Jewish?

And you get posters coming along to say BuT wHaT aBoUt GaZa!?! on the Jewish MN board too.