Nearly 5000 now dead, mostly women and children. Sickening.

[flashbac]

At what point will it stop? Why are the Palestinians seen as vermin? Ethnic cleansing is what this is.

@Pollyputhekettleon
There you go pol. The last sentence

The Peel Commission published its report in July 1937. The report admitted that the mandate was unworkable because Jewish and Arab objectives in Palestine were incompatible, and it proposed that Palestine be partitioned into three zones: an Arab state, a Jewish state, and a neutral territory containing the holy places.

Oh you're still going with that? Yes, the mosque that would launch WW3, which you understand. Not everyone is quite so understanding about why the entire Islamic world would, in your view, declare WW3 just because control over a mosque was handed to, say, the UN. Many people would find that something of an overreaction, you might say.

On the other hand, of course Arabs in the 1920s and 1930s felt similarly about lands conquered by Islam remaining under Islamic control. The apparent total lack of concern about the ex-dhimmis who wanted self-determination for once has to be understood in that light.

That's the Peel Report. The 500 square miles was the Woodhead Commission. I did post you the paragraph from the Jerusalem Post about that, back when I asked you why they wouldn't give them even 500 square miles in 1938. I'll post it again in case you missed it:

'In 1938, a new commission led by Sir John Woodhead made one more effort to come up with an acceptable partition proposal. That commission, again boycotted by the Palestinian Arabs, resulted in a complex and unworkable scheme that tried to alleviate Arab worries by increasing the size of the Mandatory portion of Palestine to include the Galilee. The Jewish State would consist of a small coastal area approximately 500 square miles in area. This proposal was rejected by both sides, and while its rejection by the Zionists was understandable, one can only wonder at its rejection by the Arabs. It was certainly a much better deal, from the Arab perspective, than the 1947 UN Partition Plan, which was also rejected by the Arabs.'

The Peel Commission Report of 1937 - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

You asked me to give one reason why they rejected the proposal
I gave you one reason.
But once again it seems you are one of those posters who will not be satisfied until the other has exactly the same view point as them
Indeed very tiresome

Your 'reason' mixed up the Peel Commission and the Woodhead Commission. If you don't want to answer the questions I've asked that's fine. I'll continue to wait for an explanation from the pro-Palestinian side about the motivation for the Arabs' treatment of their former dhimmis.

I can't take it. Babies keep getting crushed to death. And children look traumatised and are asking for their mums. My heart can't handle it. I am holding my baby so tight and so close.

Why can't we save them? Why is politics so important. Moreso than the lives of these poor poor babies and children. The difference between us and them is simply we were by chance born in a different country.

My heart is aching and I don't know what to do. I want to hold and love and look after every single one of those babies.

Don't be daft. By "poor little darlings" she was referring to the sickos who decide where to strategically place weapons.

There are people on here who will watch Israel bomb the safe places in the south and still say well what was Israel supposed to do
Who will look at burnt dead babies and say well tough they brought it on themselves

Who will see images like this and say well its all part and parcel of war, collateral damage you see.

Completely agree

It's becoming increasingly clear to me as time goes on and lots of peoples masks are slipping that their support for Israel comes from a place of racism and Islamaphobia. I honestly thought that as the numbers killed by Israel increased and their real agenda was shown more that people would start to care. I've realised though that that support was never because they truly believed Israel weren't targeting civilians or that they truly believed that to get to Hamas you have to destroy Gaza and everyone in it, that support is there because they believe Israeli lives are worth more.

Oh please don't be ridiculous!

as the numbers killed by Israel increased and their real agenda was shown more that people would start to care

Hamas has shown its real agenda, and this is not a numbers game.

I'm not being ridiculous. There is another thread on this board that has turned into an EDL meeting. Lots of talk of 'western values' and how once 'they' are done with Israel 'they' will be coming for us. This is becoming increasingly common in discussions on this.

Are you claiming Hamas didn't say that? It looked like a genuine interview to me but I'm open to correction. It isn't a surprising statement for a group like Hamas to make, either, obviously enough. I haven't bothered looking for more statements of the kind but I'd be very surprised if this was an isolated incident.

Here, I'll post what their senior official said in 2022 again and you can tell me if it's fake:

Footage of senior Hamas official Mahmoud al-Zahar calling for world domination has resurfaced online.

“We believe in what our Prophet Muhammad said: “Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake, and I have seen its eastern and western ends. The dominion of my nation would reach those ends that have been drawn near me," Zahar said in the video that was published on MEMRI TV in December of 2022,

“The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity and no killings and crimes like those being committed against the Palestinians, and against the Arabs in all the Arab countries, in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and other countries," he said.

WATCH: Israel is only the first target, warns Hamas commander - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

I'm confused about why you've put 'they' in scare quotes by the way. Do you object to Hamas being 'othered'?

You know as well as I do that Hamas will never take over the world. In the past however many decades since they were formed they haven't managed to do anything. There is a grand total of fuck all for us in Europe to be afraid of when it comes to Hamas.

You also know as well as I do that when people are talking about the decline in 'western values' it isn't Hamas they are talking about.

You can pretend to be thick all you like but it's clear to see what posters are talking about.

Indeed! As long as they are Palestinian, not Israeli, children, being murdered, it is ok because Hamas has to be destroyed ( I despise them). In addition, how can you trust a Israeli government who tells civilians to flee to safety in the South of Gaza and then proceeds to bomb them 60 times last night? Please, how can you even justify this?

@Gruntsandgroans

OK, so you don't deny Hamas has ambitions beyond Israel. Great. You just think they can't possibly achieve it. I'm not sure what relevance that has.

'There is another thread on this board that has turned into an EDL meeting. Lots of talk of 'western values' and how once 'they' are done with Israel 'they' will be coming for us. This is becoming increasingly common in discussions on this.'

Again, why did you put 'they' in quote marks? You knew we were talking about Hamas, right? At least primarily about Hamas. Of course it's not as if they belief system is unique to them! It's not even unique to them within tiny Gaza! As you know.

If you're not concerned about the activities of jihadist terrorist groups, including in Europe, that's your business. Why does it upset you so much if other people are?

You think that when people are talking about the decline of 'Western values' and 'multicultural living' they are talking about jihadist terrorist groups? Pull the other one.

Why aren't the same people so concerned about a country with an elected government that are committing war crimes, crimes against humanity and acts of terror? How does any of that align with 'Western values'? How does committing apartheid align with 'Western values'? How does collectively punishing over 2million people, including over a million children for years and years align with 'Western values'? How does imprisoning children without trial and torturing them align with 'Western Values'? There is nothing about Israels actions that align with 'Western Values'. If it is 'Western Values' people are so concerned about then why are they standing with Israel?

From the Guardian:

Anyone in parts of northern Gaza who ignores Israel’s evacuation order may be regarded as “an accomplice in a terrorist organisation”, according to a leaflet distributed at the weekend. So it’s official. Civilians, including children possibly orphaned, injured, lost or separated from their families, may now be deemed enemy combatants if they show up in the “wrong” place.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/23/israel-palestine-children-onslaught-gaza-survivors-killed-traumatised?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

It's impossible now to view Israel as having the moral ground.

If the UK did this and it was widely known. It would be rightfully condemned. We should also condemn Israel.

@NotTerfNorCis not to mention once the poor civilians actually listen and move to the Israeli designated safe zones, Israel then goes and bombs those exact same places

Source the Guardian
Reuters is carrying an interview with an 18-year-old Palestinian who claims to have lost 13 members of her family after they fled from the north of the Gaza Strip to the south – as ordered by the Israeli military – only to be caught up in the bombardment there.Dima al-Lamdani said she had had to identify the bodies of her relatives at a makeshift morgue in Khan Younis after losing her parents, seven siblings and four members of her uncle’s family. She said her family and that of her uncle travelled in two cars across Gaza.She said her family was staying at a temporary shelter when “at 4.30am I was awake and sitting with my aunt drinking coffee. Suddenly I woke up in the middle of ruins. Everyone around me was screaming, so I screamed.”“This is a nightmare. It will never be wiped from my memory,” she said. “I had a sister, 16. They wrote my name on the white sheet they wrapped her body in, they thought it was me.“They told us to evacuate your place and go to Khan Younis because it is safe. They betrayed us and bombed us.”

That is so unbearably sad. I have a neighbour who's stuck in Khan Younis at the moment and no one has heard from him or his family since yesterday morning. He and his wife and kids tried to leave as they are dual citizens but they can't obviously.

I'm so worried about them. There are a lot of children staying in the house where he is, many of whom fled from the north with their parents.

@Gruntsandgroans

There are two separate, though related, discussions which you placed in one sentence for some reason:

'Lots of talk of 'western values' and how once 'they' are done with Israel 'they' will be coming for us.'

I was responding to the latter point, as I assumed was clear.

I've asked you twice now why you put 'they' in quotation marks and you haven't answered.

You were trying to imply of course that the posters in question were talking about all Muslims and were 'othering' them, as the left loves to say. Yet you knew they weren't doing that. You knew they and I were talking about Hamas and other similar jihadist groups.

If you're having such difficulty in defining western values that you need to put it repeatedly into quotations marks then how are you reaching any conclusions about people being hypocritical or not in their application of such an apparently nebulous concept?

They're now saying 1800 children have been killed, that's catastrophic. Imagine all of the children from 7 primary schools being blown up. I honestly think some people need to do these mental exercises to understand the horror of what is happening.

@Toothyfruity why are dual citizen passport holders still not able to leave? thought that once the border was open for aid they were going to be allowed out.